Powering hi-lo (
 

Hello everyone,

I bought a hi-lo, yesterday. It is an oldie, 1982. I still don't know the exact model. The guy hooked it up to a regular car battery and showed me it lifted. Today, I tried to plug it into a house socket and it did not work. I purchased a new marine and rv battery from Walmart, but that did not work either. At least with the battery I here some clicking like it wants to start. I know nothing about these batteries accept what I found online. So I do need a starter battery? Also, I assumed the battery was ready to go out of the store, but realized I might be wrong since it sounds like it isn't getting enough power. Any ideas or suggestion have a 24DC 690 cranking amps 101 amp hours it is Everstart. How many cranking amps do I need? Thank you.

Hello, Naomi and welcome!

The battery you bought should be fine to raise the top half. How are you getting the power from the battery to the lifting motor? That may be the problem, if you don't have proper connections.

I know I may be asking questions you don't understand, but does the trailer have a manual lifting crank? You would normally find this under a small door at the front of the battery box. Look for a short round tube that points up. You put a crank handle into that (anything that will fit will do, such as a short piece of pipe) and then you move the handle back and forth to raise the top manually.

Once you have the top at least partly up, you will have better access to the battery compartment.

Also, is the Master Switch inside the trailer door in the proper position? It's usually a black switch that you press in at the bottom. Then, you press the upper part of the white switch next to it to raise the top electrically. If you find the Master Switch, try it with the top part pressed in too - some of them were installed reversed.

Since you saw that it worked, it probably still does, if you get things hooked up right. If all else fails, drive it back to where you bought it and have the previous owner help you. I would think he would.

- Jack

Thank you
 

I didn't see a master switch but it was dark. I will check it tomorrow. This could be the problem, I never used a master switch or saw one. Thank you so much. It is just nice to have a place to ask questions and get ideas. I feel better already as I had no idea where to start. Naomi

Naomi, Welcome to the forum, you have found the source for everything Hi Lo. Somewhere, I can't seem to find them right now, is a set of videos for the operation of most of the systems found on the Hi Lo. Thought they were in the reference library.
Someone will pop up and let us know where they are.
Tree
PS I'll be in your town in Nov, but not camping.

Naomi, Understand those videos are on youtube "Hi Lo video operators manual". I think that's it.

Yep, that where to find them. Just checked. There are about 37 short videos done by sting 32. I downloaded them to "my favorites". On a rainy day, they are interesting AND informative. Check them out!
Tree

Thank you!
 

Wow, thanks! Didn't know that existed.

QUOTE=Treeclimber;39507]Naomi, Welcome to the forum, you have found the source for everything Hi Lo. Somewhere, I can't seem to find them right now, is a set of videos for the operation of most of the systems found on the Hi Lo. Thought they were in the reference library.
Someone will pop up and let us know where they are.
Tree
PS I'll be in your town in Nov, but not camping.[/QUOTE]

Thank you, looking up user name now. Really appreciate it.

Thank you so much. Haven't been able to find more than a brochure until now.

Welcome to the forum
 

You have joined a very good helpful group of dedicated HiLo owners. The guys are really good and will keep posting until you get your problem solved.

Update: still not working. There is no master switch on this model. I upgraded to a bigger battery but no luck. I am going to try the car battery as seller suggests. May have to rewire everything as it is almost 40 years old. I watched the videos by Sting 32 and found some generally helpful advice. Will keep searching for the manual. Thank you!

HiLo problems
 

Hi Naomi: Welcome to the forum. Do NOT go back to a car battery. He just wants you to spend money. The marine/RV battery is the correct battery for the HiLo. This is a simple circuit and we should be able to help with finding the problem. I sent you a private message. Read it and get back with me.

Pay attention to what Jim is saying. You ARE using the correct battery.

I think you have either got it hooked up incorrectly, or there is a faulty contact somewhere in the circuit, or, the lift motor has failed.

But, you said you heard "clicking" in your first post? That sounds like the motor solenoid is engaging, which would supply power to the motor. I wonder if it's possible you have hooked the battery up in "reverse"? (In other words, have you possibly connected the negative cable from the trailer to the positive terminal of the battery and the positive cable to the negative terminal?) If so, I think the solenoid would still pull in, but the motor would try to run backwards.

Pictures of your hookup would be helpful. But, work with Jim. He certainly knows how this system works, and I'm sure he can help you.

- Jack

HiLo problems
 

Naomi; Jack suggested that you may have hooked up the battery cables wrong. Lets hope not. This is a place that you need to know what you are doing is correct. The positive lead hooked to the positive post and the negative lead to the negative post on the battery. We know you have a new battery and you said you heard a clicking when you pressed the switch to raise the top. The pump/motor is a very reliable unit and rarely goes bad. Lets hope yours has not. My guess is that when you are hearing that clicking and you have a good battery is that you have a bad connection that is not letting enough power, voltage and amps , to run the pump. The negative battery cable is usually connected to the frame. Clean that connection and tighten it. Do the same to the positive cable that goes to the solenoid and the connection from the solenoid to the pump motor. The pump motor is either connected to the metal frame or has a ground lead from the motor to the frame to complete the circuit so clean and tighten this connection. Bad/corroded connections are a major problem thruout all RV circuits. When you hear that clicking this usually means a bad battery or connection. When you press the switch to raise the top the solenoid closes (click) then the voltage goes thru to the motor and the motor pulls so many amps, (over 100) that the voltage drops so much that the solenoid drops out, then the motor is no longer connected, the voltage goes back up and the solenoid snaps back in (click) and this just keep repeating its self. Since yours is over 30 yrs old another problem can be the battery cables themselves. The cables are made up of many small wires and these wires do corrode inside of the insulation where you cannot see them. As these wires corrode they get smaller in diameter and no longer able to carry the amp/voltage load and this can cause that voltage drop so something as simple and inexpensive as replacing the cables on old equipment can correct these problems. Hopes this helps. I can help better on the phone.

Thanks, Jim - I have to admit my thought of reversing the connections was a bit of a stretch. I like the degraded connections you so aptly explained much better. The only hangup I have with that though is that the seller demonstrated the top lifting to Naomi before it was purchased. Why would the connections suddenly go bad?

Since there are no microprocessor circuits or other "delicate" components in the lifting circuit (just a magnet and a DC motor) it MIGHT be able to be connected in reverse without "letting any of the magic smoke out".

I dunno. I'd really like to see a photograph of how the battery is connected.

Naomi - the cables you are connecting to your battery should be very thick ones with round, bolt-on connections at the ends that fit over the battery terminals. If those cables are "colored", the RED one should go to the "+" terminal of the battery and the BLACK one should go to the "-" terminal of the battery.

- Jack

Naomi, I've not tried this on my 2176RB yet, but I've learned here on the forum [if my Brain is working correctly] that it may be just the Brushes in the Motor. If so, just tapping with a rubber mallet may dislodge any build up on the Brushes. Otherwise, new brushes may be the trick.

Doesn't make sense that it worked when the previous owner raised it for you though!

HiLo problems
 

Jack; I agree that it seems strange that the top lifted when Naomi bought the HiLo but didn't later at home. Naomi should at least call the previous owner to see if he has any idea why it won't raise now. Owners over the years have made changes to their HiLos and hopefully this might be just a simple fix that he would know about. Jack you are wrong about there are no delicate components in the lifting circuit. On my HiLo the Positive battery cable goes directly to the hot side of the solenoid and directly from that stud to the two main 30 amp circuit breakers. The power then goes to the master switch but also bypasses the master switch and goes to the fridg and the power converter. If you reverse the battery cables on my Hilo just to check if they had been hooked up wrong you would be reverseing the polarity to the fridg and power converter. This is why I said that a person needs to know the correct way to hook up the battery in the first place because an instant of reverse polarity will do a lot of damage. Naomi's HiLo has no master switch so I would bet power is fed to all components when the battery is hooked up. The lifting circuit is not an isolated circuit in the HiLo.

Bruce you are right that it could be brushes. After all It is about 35 years old. I have heard about the old hammer trick but never tried it. Any good auto electrical shop can rebuild the motor or replace it with a new or rebuilt one. It is just a common auto starter motor.

Good catch, Jim! The refrigerator is certainly able to be powered directly from the battery, and, if it received reverse voltage, I suspect it would damage the control circuitry there.

But, if it were turned off, I think it would be isolated from the lifting circuit and would likely escape damage. Now, the Converter may or may not see that voltage - I don't know what happens if it is not connected to shore power.

I'm not going to try this out, because, like you, I don't like the idea of a reversed battery connection. I was just trying to come up with a possible reason for the lift motor not working, when it did before. And, from the OPs first post, I'm getting the feeling that Naomi might have limited knowledge of electrical systems.

If I'm wrong, I hope Naomi is not insulted. I'm just looking at all possibilities and trying to help.

- Jack

Jim,- My Old 2176B is connected just as yours. The Positive Cable goes directly to the Pump and all other Power is directed from that point. As I recall (haven't refreshed my memory by looking again) the ground connects to the solenoid or top of the Pump.{?}

If the guy who sold it was able to show him how it worked by connecting a battery-----then what happened between then and when he got it home? Or am I missing something?

i'm also not buying that there is no master switch. But- if it was off I dont know why he could hear the solenoid engaging.

Rick

Neither my 2176B nor 2600TFB has a Master Switch like those having been discussed. There is an on/Off Switch on the 2600TFB, But NO intermediate Stop for just the Pump, even though the Manual says it does! On the 2176B the only Switch is at the Breaker Box.:)

Some older HiLos did not have master switches and old owners may have modified the electrical hookup. As far as what happened between the previous owner raising the top and Naomi getting it home, the HiLo may have been sitting for a long period and the towing it home may have loosened a connection from viberation. The fact that Naomi can hear a clicking of the solenoid shows that some voltage is getting thru.

On my HiLo the battery ground cable goes directly to the frame not to the pump. The pump is grounded either thru the mounting bolts to the frame or a ground strap to the frame. Cannot remember. My HiLo is parked under a low shed so cannot just go raise it, have to hookup and pull it out.

Master switch
 

Our 1990 Classic doesn't have a master switch. It only has a toggle switch to lift the HiLo up,off or down. DH has had to replace the switch.

"Our 1990 Classic doesn't have a master switch. It only has a toggle switch to lift the HiLo up,off or down. DH has had to replace the switch."

"Some older HiLos did not have master switches and old owners may have modified the electrical hookup."

Well....I happily stand corrected ! :) And, therefore, I am throwing my weight behind the bad-ground connection. That seems to make sense. Actually- I couldn't raise mine up this spring after pulling it down the road two miles. Bad connection on the positive terminal, maybe. I also had a lose connection at the toggle switch. Hard to say which one was the culprit.

Rick

The clicking sound can sometimes indicate a bad or faulty solenoid when 12v is getting to solenoid, causing it to engage making the clicking sound. But if the solenoid is faulty, the 12v may not be relayed to the starter motor. This failure is often intermittent which may explain it working once then not later. A simple test with a multi meter to determine if 12v are getting to the starter motor when the switch is activated would help to isolate the problem.

Update: sorry I have been slow to respond. My mother is in the hospital. I am going to read the posts and replies this weekend. I can't believe how much info I have already gotten. I was able to raise the trailer or my brother was. He gave the battery a jump! I bought the battery from Walmart. It may have set on the shelf to long. The battery is still not working and I traded it out, by the way Walmart does not let you trade out a battery that has been hooked up even for a second. I plan to charge the battery this weekend to see if it can stand on its own. Thank all of you. This site helped me hold it together, I wanted to take my mom to the beach if she gets on her feet. Felt stuck because I have no idea what I am doing.

HiLo problems
 

Naomi; Charge that battery up for 24 to 30 hours, then remove the charger for 5 or 6 hours and take the battery to one of the name brand auto parts store and they will check it, for free under a load test and will tell you if it is good. You don't have to take the battery into the store. This is the best test you can do on a battery and not a test most of us can do at home. That low battery was not putting out enough voltage under the load to hold the solenoid in and turn the pump motor. Glad you got it up.

Naomi, I'm delighted to hear you got the top up too! Good on you, and I'm sorry to hear about the faulty battery. I didn't know Walmart would not let you exchange a new battery that doesn't work for one that does. That seems very poor customer service to me. Doesn't a Walmart battery come with any warranty?

Jim has again given you excellent advice regarding the "goodness" of the charge on your battery. If you don't have a charger, the shore power converter in the trailer should charge your battery if you plug it in to a wall plug with the battery connected to the trailer.

Regarding shore power at home, it will charge the battery and should operate the refrigerator, but it WILL NOT power the trailer's Air Conditioner - that device needs a 30Amp supply.

Don't hesitate to ask more questions! We have lots more confusing advice to give! :) :D

- Jack

Glad to hear you got the HiLo to raise
 

If the battery won't hold a charge after you do what our great forum member suggested then I would get the Auto parts store to doccument for you. Take the paper to the Walmart manager. Tell him you want a replacement. Write corporate a letter if need be. If this doesn't work I will give you other avenues for complaint. Prayers sent for your Mom for a speedy recovery.

speaking of batteries
 

Just a friendly reminder to check your battery water level monthly. I put this on my calender and fill with distilled water. Distilled water is cheap compared to the price of a new battery.

"Regarding shore power at home, it will charge the battery and should operate the refrigerator, but it WILL NOT power the trailer's Air Conditioner - that device needs a 30Amp supply."

Jack- admittedly I guess I am not sure what I have at home but I have, a number of times, powered the AC off my outlets in the garage while running the refrigerator and charging the battery. Over the fourth of July I had the trailer out at my sister's farm and had it plugged in to a utility shed to run the ac (for the dog to hang in). I'm assuming both their place and mine has 200 amp service though the extension cord was plugged into a 20 amp outlet. At home I use a 20 amp.

Rick

I may well be overstating the electrical needs of the AC. Thinking more clearly about it, 20 x 120 = 2400 Watts. And, I suspect that's enough to supply the starting demand.

- Jack

AC just needs a dedicated circuit

Naomi,
I am about two weeks more advanced than you having bought my 1999 Hi Lo 21' Tow Lite 15 days ago. I'm not handymanish or mechanically proficient, but by reading the forum posts here and watching the Hi Lo videos, I've made some progress and expect to be able to try a test camping run soon. I wish you well in your adventures with your new, old Hi Lo. I may be taking mine to the butterfly festival on the lower Rio Grande Valley in early November.

I am having a very similar issue with my 2000 hi-lo 17'. Thank you all so much for your responses to naomi. what a wonderful group of people. My wife and i used our camper every other weekend last summer and as we kept using it i noticed it took longer and longer to raise. This spring i tried to raise it to no avail. I put a new battery in it and still nothing. it tries to go up but stops after a few inches with the pump still making the same noise. fluid level is good. I took apart the pump and there was alot of metal shavings in the reservoir but the gears looked to be in great shape. flushed the system and refilled but still no luck. finally with my 2500 diesel jumped to it i was able to get it up but still took over a minute. I since have tried other batteries from my truck and tractor but will only go up with it being jumped. I've cleaned all connections and now was thinking it could possibly be the brushes. any more ideas would be great. Not trying to steal a thread just thought i could add to it for others to see if they are having similar problems with raising it.
Thanks,
Luke

HiLo problems
 

Hi Luckyrogue; I will make a stab at this. Its never a good sign when you find metal shavings in the system. They could be coming from two places. The pump gears may be worn and you may not be able to see a few thousands of wear but the pump won't produce the pressure needed to raise the top. I know nothing about rebuilding this pump but the manufacture is still in business. You might call them if this appears to be the problem. The next possible problem is the hydraulic cylinder that raises the top. The o-rings and seal on the piston may be gone and you could have metal to metal wear inside the cylinder. This would pass the metal shavings back to the pump thru the vent line. You should be able to tell if this is the case by getting under the rv. Have someone try to raise the top while you look at the vent line. This is the somewhat clear plastic line that runs from the hyd cylinder back to the pump. If any fluid is flowing in this line when the pump is running then the o-rings/ seals on the piston are shot. This line may have a little fluid laying in the low spots but none flowing. Now to the electrical side. It strange that it tries to raise when you jump it. You may still have a bad connection (mostly ground). On most of the HiLos the ground cable goes from the negitive post on the battery to the frame of the pump motor. Make sure the connection at the pump and pump to frame is clean. If you are dropping a lot of voltage due to a bad connection or badly pitted/worn contacts on the solenoid, or bad brushes you might be dropping enough voltage that the pump is running too slow. Check the voltage at the power lug on the pump when you are trying to raise the top and see what you have If I remember right it should be around 10V. One other thing, In the pump there is a pressure relief valve that opens when the top is completely up and just recirculates the fluid within the pump. This is when you hear the pump squeal. If some of the shavings have stuck under that needle and seat then the pump cannot produce the pressure needed to raise the top. Search the fourm here for how to correct "top creep". This will have the info on how to clean this valve. Also make sure the manual lowering valve on the pump is closed. If some shavings were stuck under the solenoid lowering valve on the pump this also would prevent the pump from producing pressure. DO NOT try to adjust the pressure relief valve to a higher pressure without a pressure gage as the pump can product a pressure high enough to damage the lift system. Make sure all the cable pulleys are good and nothing has falling between the top and bottom half that could be causing a lot of drag on the system. I have sent you a private message. Good luck

Jim, that's damned good advice! I like the "shavings in the solenoid valve" based on his description of what's happening. If it were me, I'd start there.

But, the bad ground is a good thing to check for too.

Lucky - use Jim's post as a detailed troubleshooting guide. I think you'll be able to solve your problems with it.

- Jack