Air Bags - Hi-Lo camper travel trailer forum

campthewestcoast · 10-02-2011, 05:56 PM

Is anyone using air bags on your TV and what air pressure?

RichR · 10-02-2011, 07:46 PM

I just curious, but what benefit do you get from airbags on a TV especially if are using a WD hitch? Maybe I am missing something here.

NDgent · 10-02-2011, 08:09 PM

If by airbags you mean Firestone Air Adjustable Springs, I've got them on my Frontier. They are "Helper" air springs and adjustable to the loading. If you carry heavy loads your Truck (TV) will sag, placing your headlights high and your rear bumper low ... throw in the WD hitch and you will resolve some of this, but the truck springs get a workout. The Firestone's take the load off the truck springs so they do not have to work as hard.

When I hitch up the Hi-Lo I add air (I installed one fill valve with a "t" so the two air springs adjust at the same time) to level the TV/RV and then I load the WD hitch spring bars, that way the WD is only countering the hinging of the ball hitch not transferring the load off the TV.

In a word I think they are Great and because they are adjustable when not towing I can soften the ride to whatever I like.

campthewestcoast · 10-02-2011, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NDgent

If by airbags you mean Firestone Air Adjustable Springs, I've got them on my Frontier. They are "Helper" air springs and adjustable to the loading. If you carry heavy loads your Truck (TV) will sag, placing your headlights high and your rear bumper low ... throw in the WD hitch and you will resolve some of this, but the truck springs get a workout. The Firestone's take the load off the truck springs so they do not have to work as hard.

When I hitch up the Hi-Lo I add air (I installed one fill valve with a "t" so the two air springs adjust at the same time) to level the TV/RV and then I load the WD hitch spring bars, that way the WD is only countering the hinging of the ball hitch not transferring the load off the TV.

In a word I think they are Great and because they are adjustable when not towing I can soften the ride to whatever I like.

Do you know your tounge wieght? Is the tounge wieght heavier than stock from the factory because of extra batteries? Or do you have heavier rated WD hitch? Your set-up sounds sound. And it sounds like you don't have much "soft bouncing" going on.

NDgent · 10-03-2011, 10:34 AM

The last time I weighed the rig the Hi-Lo weighed 4,620 lbs loaded and unhitched from the TV, when I hitched it with the WD enabled the trailer weighed 3,900 lbs, thus the hitch was carrying 720 lbs which is 15.6% of the total weight. The Valley WD hitch is rated at 1,000 lbs, I didn't check the air pressure in the Ride Rites, but it would be interesting if it changes the numbers.

JackandJanet · 10-03-2011, 10:49 AM

My equalizer hitch instructions say to NOT make use of air adjustable springs or the like when setting up the hitch. The goal is to get the weight of the hitch transferred equally to the front and rear axles, which is accomplished if both ends of the tow vehicle drop the same amount with the hitch connected.

Having air springs in play will give a "false reading", which can easily put too much weight on the rear axle.

Now, to level out the vehicle when simply carrying a heavy load, air springs are the obvious solution, but again, you have to be respectful of the rear axle weight rating.

Personally, I think people often use air springs to compensate for an overloaded (and unsafe) vehicle. As long as this is not the case, they're fine.

- Jack

NDgent · 10-03-2011, 03:28 PM

Jack, You made me curious so here are the recommendations from a manufacturer!

Camco eazLift: PROPER METHOD OF HOOKING UP WEIGHT DISTRIBUTING HITCH WITH AIR SHOCKS OR AIR BAGS http://manuals.adventurerv.net/Eaz-L...structions.pdf

A. Air shocks or air bags should only be used to support the added weight you load in the back end of tow vehicle.
B. After you have adjusted the shocks, measure distance between rear bumper and ground, write it down.
C. Measure distance between front bumper and ground, write it down.
D. Hook up trailer to towing vehicle.
E. Raise front of trailer and back of towing vehicle above level with trailer tongue jack (approx. 3").
F. Secure spring bars to Hook-Up Bracket.
G. Release trailer tongue jack.
H. Remeasure front and back of towing vehicle and have both settle the same amount or up to 1/2" lower in back by adjusting chain on spring bars.
I. CAUTION: Do not adjust air shocks or air bags to support any of the tongue weight of trailer.
J. You have now distributed the trailer tongue weight on both axles of the towing vehicle.
K. To release tension on spring bars, raise front of trailer and back of towing vehicle above level (approx. 3") with trailer tongue jack. Remove locking clip from Quick Hook-Up bracket. Insert (48031) Lever Bar over arm. Carefully lower arm with Lever Bar. It will require effort to bring arm over center and then to resist the chain tension as the arm rotates downward.

JackandJanet · 10-03-2011, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NDgent

...<snip>...
A. Air shocks or air bags should only be used to support the added weight you load in the back end of tow vehicle. ...<snip>...

I think the part I've "bolded" is the operative guidance. I would take this to mean loading the TV to the "traveling weight" and then adjusting the air bags to bring it back to "level" (so that the headlight aim was not pointed up"). This is no different than what you do with air bags when carrying a heavy load. Now, adjust the hitch so that the front and rear of the TV compress equally. (This is the same as adjusting it with an "empty" TV, the additional load on each axle from the trailer is the same.

There IS one point though. In this scenario, there is still the additional weight on the rear axle due to the TV's load, in addition to the loading on each axle from the hitch. So, you need to respect the max Rear Axle Gross Weight Rating, and it would be good to drive across a scale to insure this limit is not exceeded.

If you don't have airbags, and adjust the WD hitch to bring the truck back to level using only the hitch, it tries to distribute the additional cargo weight across both axles too. This evens out the TV axle loading, but COULD overload the WD hitch or, transfer too much weight back to the trailer's axles. (The WD hitch actually tries to "lift" the rear TV axle by moving that weight to the front TV axle and the trailer axle.

So, without airbags, you should really not try to "level" the TV. You should just insure equal compression at the front and rear (after the TV has been loaded). The TV will still be pointed "up" a bit.

And, of course, using the air springs to raise the rear of the TV AFTER connecting the hitch simply puts ALL the weight on the rear axle.

- Jack

NDgent · 10-03-2011, 05:56 PM

You had me all the way until the conclusion. I do not believe that it matters much when you the the volume (not the pressure) of air to the the Ride Rites ... rather it is going to make it difficult to determine how much to add to the air bags because it will impact the WD chain settings if you do it last. All the weight on the rear axle, well maybe, but I'm not convinced.

I'll check my current inflation level on the Ride Rites then next hookup I will follow the posted process and see if the results differ. I will let you all know the results.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackandJanet

And, of course, using the air springs to raise the rear of the TV AFTER connecting the hitch simply puts ALL the weight on the rear axle.

- Jack

JackandJanet · 10-03-2011, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NDgent

You had me all the way until the conclusion. I do not believe that it matters much when you the the volume (not the pressure) of air to the the Ride Rites ... rather it is going to make it difficult to determine how much to add to the air bags because it will impact the WD chain settings if you do it last. All the weight on the rear axle, well maybe, but I'm not convinced.

I'll check my current inflation level on the Ride Rites then next hookup I will follow the posted process and see if the results differ. I will let you all know the results.

I actually left out a key "clause" in that last statement, but it was one I thought was implied by the .pdf instructions you linked to.

My assumption, in the last statement, was that you would erroneously put the trailer tongue on the ball, leaving the load leveling bars loose. Then, you'd use the air springs to raise and level everything. At this point, all the weight would be on the rear axle. Then, you'd attach the load leveling bars, and possibly reduce some of the pressure in the springs, or, maybe do nothing, if things "looked" ok.

And of course we both know this is exactly the wrong way to do things. However, we both also know if there's a wrong way to do something, someone will figure out a way to do it.

Sorry, John - I know I can be confusing at times.

- Jack

JackandJanet · 10-03-2011, 07:22 PM

To add to this. What I'm trying to emphasize is that air springs do a great job of "leveling", but they do NOTHING about weight transference. Things might "look great", but you can still be terribly overloaded.

And I feel there are some people who don't really understand the difference between leveling and load distribution.

I have nothing at all against leveling air springs when they're used properly.

- Jack

firemarshal · 10-31-2011, 03:57 PM

I'm using Firestone Bags on My '99 Chevy truck. I started with them installed alone, with an air line and valve stem on each side. Sweet ride, but it meant I had to get out my little 12v air compressor each time I hook on the trailer and fill each side. Then use a pressure gauge to get to my pressure. I figured out that I needed 32-35 psi to answer your question. I carry a lot of gear in the truck, plus the trailer on the hitch, and just went out at night and kept adding air until my headlights came back to level.
I put up with that for about a year, and decided to install an Air-Lift on-board compressor. Sweeter... The only difference is that I had to wye both bags to the compressor line. The difference is in the ride. Having both bags on the same air line means that when one side hits a bump, the other bag gets a jolt of air pressure. Not a big deal, if you spend a lot of seat time like me, but you can notice the rear suspension doesn't feel as tight. Not a big problem for the convenience...

Quote:

Originally Posted by campthewestcoast

Is anyone using air bags on your TV and what air pressure?