My Trailer is Overloaded
 

OK, the title summarizes the problem, and here's how I determine this is true:

1. The GVWR for my 1707T is 3840 lbs, according to the CD-132 form inside the trailer.
2. The UVW, which includes ALL manufacturer installed equipment is listed as 3001 lbs.
3. The weight of filled fresh water (36 gals) is given as 299 lbs and the weight of propane (9 gals) is given as 40 lbs.
4. This leaves 500 lbs as the additional Cargo Carrying Capacity (CCC).
5. According to the trailer manual, the hitch weight should be between approximately 12-15% of the full load weight, or 461-576 lbs at the GVWR.
5. There is NO "dealer installed equipment". Everything in the trailer is shown as "Optional Equipment Installed By Manufacturer. So, I conclude I should be able to add 500 more pounds of cargo to the trailer, with full water and propane and still remain within the weight limit.
6. I have added an additional battery, weighing approximately 50 lbs, most of which would be added to the hitch weight.
7. Additional cargo included pots, pans and dishes under the sink and microwave (maybe 20 pounds total).

The trailer is connected to my tow vehicle, a 2005 F150 SCrew, with an Equal-I-Zer Sway Control Hitch. The trailer is level while being towed and the compression difference at the truck axles are within 3/4" of the unloaded measurements.

On a public scale, with full fresh water and propane, I found the trailer axle weight was 3320 lbs. The axle is rated at 3500 lbs and the OEM tires (Goodyear 205/75R15 LR C) were rated at 1820 lbs each. It is clear that the axle loading is VERY close to the rated limits of the axle and the tires.

But - I then measured the weight at the trailer hitch (using the "bathroom scale" method) and found it to be 705 lbs! This brings the GVW of the trailer to 4025 lbs, which is 185 lbs over the limit.

My OEM tires on the trailer both failed due to cord separation in the second year, at less than 5000 miles. They were ALWAYS inflated to 50 psi (cold), and I always kept my tow speeds near 65 mph.

Additionally, the axle was replaced at this time because technicians said it looked like it had "failed". Dexter axle confirmed that the axle was "out of spec" due to unknown causes and the replacement was free.

The Dexter representative told me there would be insufficient clearance to mount a heavier axle on this trailer. But, the current design seems unsafe.

I wrote HI-LO explaining my concern and never got a response.

Has anyone else had a similar problem and does anyone have any suggestions on how I should proceed?

- Jack

You should weigh the trailer by itself to get the true weight. It sounds like you may have been hitched to the TV when you weighed it for the axle weight and have a WD hitch. That could affect some of the numbers.

By the way, where is the CD-132 located on you trailer? I have a 2310H and I cannot find any weight related stickers anywhere inside. There is a yellow weight sticker outside that gives 2664 pounds with no explanation at to what it means. That could be the cargo capacity. :confused:

I found this website that explains some of the questions we all have about weight. https://www.everything-about-rving.com/rv-weight.html

Rich, thanks for responding. I wondered about that, since a WD hitch might easily add to the axle loading. But, of course, I'm still running uncomfortably close to the limit, with an empty trailer! As things stand, the only "cargo" we put in there on trips is food in the refrigerator and our clothing and bedding - hardly much weight at all.

The truck scale people won't let me drop the trailer on the scale, but I could probably disconnect the weight distributing arms and just tow it up on the scale connected to the hitch ball. That shouldn't put any additional weight on the axle.

I've ordered a Sherline tongue weight scale and it should arrive tomorrow. That will give me a more accurate measurement of the hitch weight too.

The CD-132 form is pasted to the inside wall just to the left of the door. I actually took mine off, laminated it with plastic and remounted it, since I wanted it as a reference. The original glue that was holding it on pretty much "gave up the ghost". I suspect you may have had one, but it fell off at some time.

Edit: Thanks for the link!

- Jack

One thing you may want to do is not run with a full water tank. Put maybe 10 gallons in just in case you need some water on the road and then either fill or hook up to city water at you destination. The only time we fill up is when we are going boondocking about forty miles away from home. Short lower speed non-freeway trips are not as demanding on all the vital parts.

Thanks again, Rich. I've already gotten to that point. We tow the trailer with EMPTY water tanks, which is a bit of a pain. Since we almost always "boondock", I end up filling the tanks when we get there, by hand, using 5 gallon jugs and a funnel.

Once in a while though, we go places where there's NO potable water (or maybe no water at all) and then I have to fill the tank.

It's ridiculous, really. We have the "next to smallest" Hi-Lo made, and I'm worried about weight?

It'll be interesting to get an accurate measure of the tongue weight. If it's actually as high as my bathroom scale measurement indicated, it suggests the axle should be mounted a bit more forward. (The tongue weight was 564 lbs with an empty water tank.) There's room in front of the tires to do this, but it would mean the mounting brackets on the frame would have to be moved (a welding job). Just moving the axle forward by an inch would give me room to use larger tires, or 16" wheels and tires with a higher weight capacity. (I know how to do the calculation to determine a safe movement distance too.)

- Jack

See if you can find a heavier duty tire first, like a Load Range D. I don't know what is out there in that size, but that may be the best solution. It could require a wider wheel rim also.

I've actually done that Rich. I've put Maxxis ST205/75R15 LR D tires on the axle, which have a load rating of 2150 pounds at 65 psi. However, this brings up a possible problem with the rims, which I think are only rated to 50 psi! I have not been able to locate any 15" rims that are rated to 65 psi.

There are only a couple of manufacturers that seem to make LR D tires in the 205/75R15 size and the clearance between the tire tread and the step well on the right side is only about 1/2 inch. This is what is stopping me from using a larger tire such as 225/75R15 - the tire tread would contact the step well. All the LR D tires I've found require 65 psi too.

Personally, I think Hi-Lo has a questionable design here. And, I suspect the same problem may well exist with the 19T trailer too, since it uses the same 3500# single axle.

- Jack

I don't know if the pressure is an issue for rims, but if you go to a 225 tire you may need a wider rim. This is getting out beyond my school of experience, I will say no more. ;)

It's OK, Rich. I didn't start this thread with the idea of not getting suggestions. You've actually been MOST helpful, because things you've said have triggered different ideas in my own mind.

And, I just used a better search string and found some 15" 5-4.5 bolt rims that ARE rated to 65 psi. The bad news is they are aluminum and are $84 each. I'll need to do a bit more checking to see if they are otherwise OK. (And, I'll keep looking to see if there's something else not quite so "fancy").

- Jack

Good Morning,

I also have been looking at the Maxxis ST205/75R15 LR D as a replacement for the OEM Marathon tires. I have the Eight-Spoke Dexstar wheels and have been trying to get a definite answer on their PSI capacity (Dexstar customer service is lacking). I will pull the defective tire tomorrow and check for a tag or stamping on the rim. I like the idea of a higher load-rated tire for the extra margin of safety. I also found the Sherline tongue weight scale and will be ordering one.

It seems I was blissfully ignorant during the time we owned our 1707 (tire wise) but am trying to be proactive with the 2310. I would hate having that little voice of doubt in my ear as we hurtle across Nebraska and into the Rockies this fall! Accurate weights, vigilant PSI checks, and slower speeds sound like the way to go.

Jack, thanks for the input on this subject.

Hi Jeff -

I have some new input now, and I may have been a bit "alarmist" in my first post.

My Sherline tongue weight scale arrived today and I promptly measured the hitch weight. According to the scale, the load on the ball is 460# for an "empty" trailer with no water aboard. My previous weighing using the "bathroom scale" technique gave me 525# for this configuration.

Working off the weight "placard" in the trailer, I estimate the total weight to be about 3131# (3001# UVW + 40# for propane + 50# for extra battery, + 40# for hoses, small propane canisters, a few tools, pots, pans & dishes that "live" in the trailer). So, the tongue weight is about 14.7% of the total, and the axle is loaded to 2671# when it's just sitting in my backyard. I'll go ahead and fill the fresh water tank again and re-weigh.

But, I'm still left with the "running weight" on the axle that I measured on the CAT scale with water in the tanks. It was 3320, which is only 180# under the axle limit. I certainly don't want to pull this trailer without a WD hitch, but if it adds that much weight to the axle, I can't help but wonder, "is the cure worse than the disease"? Clearly, I need to do another CAT scale weighing, both with and without the trailer to get a better idea of what's going on. This will have to wait though - I'm taking the trailer in for a brake repair on Friday and who knows how long that will take? (I'll start a new thread to tell you about that story too.)

I don't trust Goodyear Marathons at all now. So far, the Maxxis tires look fine and I feel better having them installed. The people at Discount Tire told me not to worry about the rims, and it's hard to believe an additional 15 psi is going to hurt them. If the axle loading stays at or below 3320, each wheel is seeing 1660# which is well within their limits.

We've taken the trailer on three trips into the Rockies, towing it over Monarch and Red Mountain passes twice (and the first time was with a Nissan Frontier)! That is not an area where it would be fun to have a breakdown.

- Jack

Update: By adding 36 gallons of fresh water (I made sure the water heater was full too), the tongue weight increased to 630#. So now, if the total weight of the trailer is 3430 (see previous post), the tongue weight is now 18.4% of the total (which is really too much). My WD hitch is rated at 600#! The hitch rating SHOULD have been fine, since the max load at the hitch should have been 3800 x .15 = 570.

So, I'm back to

1. Having the axle moved forward a bit (I just calculated moving the axle forward 2 inches would increase the axle weight by 40#, decreasing the tongue weight to 590#).
2. Finding lots of heavy cargo to load behind the axle (to "lift" the tongue).

We don't really carry that many "heavy" items when we camp, and I don't know how I could secure them even if we did. 12% of 3430 is a hitch load of 412# (about 2/3 of the current load), so I've really got a lot of leeway before the hitch becomes too light.

By the way, I think the heavy load on the hitch (it ideally should be 12%) is what is causing the WD hitch to transfer so much weight to the trailer axle.

Has anyone ever had experience with repositioning an axle?

- Jack

Hi Jack,

I cannot help with the axle calculation but will mention that I found 15 x 6 5 on 4.5 wheels on the eltrailers.com site @ 39.95 each with free shipping. The appear to be Dexstar wheels identical to what I currently have in 15 x 5. They are rated for 2050 @ 75 PSI. I found a local dealer who retails the Maxxis line and he assures me that the 205/75/15 (8 ply) will work on the six inch width. We upgraded to a 10,000 Lb. Equalizer hitch with the new trailer, so the other question mark is how the Dakota will do once we get up into the high country.
Now if I can justify the $ for new tires and rims!

Jeff

Thanks, Jeff.

I just sent an email with this concern to Hi-Lo's service department (asking about moving the axle). I'm following up with a respectful snail-mail letter to the President asking the same thing and giving more detail.

We'll see what happens.

I think I may have seen those rims. The ones I was looking at were rated to 2150# at 65 psi, which matches the tires. This is a link to them: Trailer Parts Superstore - 15" 5 on 4.5 Lug Aluminum Trailer Wheel Good to know that the Maxxis tires fit a 6" width rim. I need to check the center hole on our OEM wheels, but I imagine 3 1/8 will work.

- Jack

We took our 1705T from PA to AR twice and on numerous other shorter voyages and never had a tire problem, same tires as yours. And although we usually travel light I never thought that we had a weight problem. The trailer towed like a popup. We have a Reese Strait Line hitch with dual cam sway control. Our TV is a 2007 Toyota Tacoma 4X4 Crewcab. We now have the 2310H and it pulls nice also.

Thanks again, Rich. The User manual for my trailer gives the hitch weight as 320#, which is 12% of the unloaded vehicle weight of 2597#. It's got the factory installed awning, A/C unit, bunk bed, spare tire and extra OH cabinets, which would bring the UVW to 2973#. (Almost what the CD-132 shows at 3001#).

I'm certain the axle position is wrong now.

I'm hopeful the President of Hi-Lo will respond appropriately.

- Jack

Are you saying that just your trailer was not built correctly or that they were all built incorrectly?

Rich, I suspect it's just mine. They've certainly had a bunch of these on the road, and I'm the only one that seems to be having a problem.

- Jack

I found this page: How to Determine Correct Axle Position : Total Trailer, Parts and Services to calculate correct axle position.

I know it's not specifically for a travel trailer, but I think it would be accurate for one that is "unloaded", no fresh water or propane. In that configuration, I would want the tongue weight to be 10% of the total I think. Then, with water and propane added, hopefully the tongue weight would be close to 12% of the total.

So, when I get my trailer back from the RV shop, where hopefully, they will repair the brake, I'll do some accurate weighing and measuring and let you know what I come up with.

While I'm waiting for that though, if anyone has a 17 ft Towlite in the 2004-2009 model year range, could you possibly measure the clearance between your right tire tread and the frame that holds the folding step up into the trailer doorway? I have only 3/8' space here, which seems way too close (and the tire is not "centered" in the tire opening). I'm curious what others have.

Thanks in advance for anyone's input.

- Jack

Hi Jack
I have a 1703T 2003 model. I just measured between the tire tread and the bracket that holds the step and I have 2 inches. My tire is close to center in the wheel opening. I have had this trailer for several years with no tire or axle problem , I just got back from a Yellowstone trip in it that was 3000 miles and all went well.
I do see where having the axle to far back could cause problems and add to the tounge weight. Hard to belive the factory missed by that much on the axle position. That is a critical mounting location on a single axle rig.

Tom

Thanks, Tom - I almost posted this question in your "Yellowstone" thread, because I think your design is the same as mine. Two inches of clearance is about what I think there should be too. 3/8" is ridiculous.

Those were great pictures, by the way. Janet and I had planned a trip to Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons next month, but her Son has decided the time we were going to go is when he wants to get married, so, I guess the trip will be next year. We were at Bryce late last summer - It's a beautiful park too, isn't it?

My all time favorite though, is Rocky Mountain National Park. The hikes there are almost TOO beautiful.

Again, thanks for the feedback on the clearance between your tire and the step frame. If anyone else has additional info, I'm all ears!

- Jack

My Trailer IS Overloaded!
 

OK, I finally go my trailer back from the RV shop where they fixed the brake (I hope). I plan to take the drum off to check anyway.

But, I immediately towed it to a CAT scale. Talked to the nice lady there and she let me drop the trailer on one scale with my truck on the other.

With no water in the tanks, the total trailer weight is 3520#. If I fill the fresh water tank and water heater, it will weigh 3820#, which is just 20# under the max gross weight! The weight today included full propane tanks (40#), an extra battery (at maybe 50#) and odds and ends like pots, pans, a few 1# propane tanks, plastic chocks and levelers, sewer hoses, water hose and a few wrenches and screwdrivers. I estimate the "odds 'n ends" to weigh no more than 40# and they are uniformly distributed. Everything else is factory installed and that weight was supposedly only 3001#! The weight SHOULD have been 3131#.

So, somehow my trailer has gained about 3520 - 3131 = 389#!

In careful reading of my "weight placard", it says the UVW includes "ALL WEIGHT AT THE TRAILER AXLE(S) AND TONGUE OR PIN". So, is it possible this does not include the weight of the axle itself or the wheels? That MIGHT be where the additional 389# came from. I imagine the tires and rims weigh close to 100# total, and the axle does not "support" them. And possibly the axle's weight is not included in its weight limit of 3500#. (Maybe that is an "unsprung" weight limit).

However, my tongue weight in this configuration is still 460#, or about 13% of the total and if I fill the fresh water tank it jumps to 630# which is 16.5% of the total and overloads my class 3, 600#, WD hitch!

An ideal hitch weight is between 12-15%, or 458-573#. I'd like it to be about 480#, or 12.6% of the total at 3820#, but to get this, I'll need the axle moved forward about 5.3"!

This is clearly a design mistake. With Hi-Lo closed down, I don't know what to do, except to warn other owners of 17 ft Hi-Los that they may also be overloaded. I'm telling you now, it's worth getting an accurate measurement of the weights on your axle and at your hitch.

I'm going to try to get the axle moved as far forward as possible, and if I can do this, I'll report back on the resulting loading. If I can't get it moved, I'll probably trade it in for some other trailer, and hope the poor soul who buys it has better luck than I did.

The trouble is, except for the weight problem, we LOVE this trailer!

- Jack

Jack did you add in the weight of your built in wardrobe drawer unit you added. Plus the pots and pan slider? Did you build in any others in the trailer?
Hi-LO has been building the 17 design for many years , and I have run into lots of owners of them on our travels , and have also been on the Yahoo
Hi-Lo forum or group for awhile. And have heard of no similar problems. I am sure the weight numbers you have are real , I do not dispute it weights more then it should and your axle was located to far back , and I do not know the weight on mine , but I know I have towed it all over the southwest in the same heat and hill conditions as you in Tucson with no tire or axle problems. I know I load mine more then you based on your list , when we go out for two weeks my wife tends to load every inch of the trailer with food and her stuff (items not used but could be needed). Maybee that improper axle position is most of your problems , and if you get that moved things will be fine. I am sure the axles can carry more then they are rated for , they tend to rate them shy of what they realy are good for to cover themself. Way to many of these 17s are on the road and not showing a overloaded axle or major tire problem for it to be a design flaw or miss calculation by Hi-LO. I have searched and talked to a lot of people since your post on this started and can not find another 17 owner with this problem.
I hope moving the axle does it , and you can get back the trailer you and janet love , because the 17 is a great design my wife and love as well.

Thanks Tom -

Yes, I actually DID include the weight of the three drawers and the little drawer under the microwave in the 40# figure for "odds n ends". I think the drawers are probably less than 10# total. And, the three biggest ones are right over the axle, so they don't add to the hitch weight. The one under the microwave is behind the axle and would take weight off of it.

I WILL say the factory installed bunk is heavy (about 80#) and the awning is heavy too (and it's center is somewhat forward of the axle). But, these factory "extras" are pretty common features, and I would have thought they compensate for those.

At the bottom of this post are three pictures (sorry for all the mud - it "poured" rain last night about 2"). The first shows the left side, which looks perfectly normal. In the second though, you see how far back the wheel is in the opening and in the third, you might be able to tell how close it is to the step frame.

Looking at this, you might think the axle is "angled", but I don't think it is - I've measured both sides very carefully and they seem the same distance back. But, I bet the right side opening is a better indicator of where the wheel SHOULD be.

IF, the axle can be moved 2.04" forward, it will reduce the tongue weight to 573#, which is 15% of the 3820# figure that includes water.

But like you said, there's too many of these on the road. I can't believe they were all designed this way.

- Jack

It was bought new. And yes, in addition to the axle being too far back, the openings in the skirts are not equidistant. That's "cosmetic" of course. The cutout on the step side is 70 3/4" back from the front of the trailer and the one on the left side is 73 3/4" back from the front. (Measured at the front of each opening, about halfway up.)

And yes, the trailer tracks properly under tow with no abnormal wheel wear.

I suspect the axle should be nearly centered in the step side opening, which would move it forward 3". This would reduce the hitch weight to about 14.2% of the 3820# figure, and I'd be happy with that.

As I said, the openings are mostly "cosmetic", provided you can still get a wheel on an off the axle and think I could. If not, a sheet metal guy could certainly create a new section to go there. The part that contains the opening is a small piece that is riveted to the skirts in front and back of it.

I really wish I'd done something about this sooner (before the company closed).

- Jack

Yes - and you can rightly ask why I didn't realize something was wrong before this! *shrug* All I can say, is I never really thought to look much at that area until I started having problems.

But as I said, the openings in the side skirts are mostly "cosmetic", and, for some reason I didn't notice how far back the wheel was on the right side until the failed tire scraped against the step well frame.

This is the first trailer we've owned - so I've learned a lot in the short time we've had it. I'll be much more "picky" the next time around.

- Jack

My New, Improved, Trailer!
 

Got my trailer back today from Arizona Spring. When I went down to get it they were working on two fire engines - that made me feel good. I doubt Fire Departments would trust their vehicles to some "fly-by-night" shop.

Ivan told me the axle WAS actually "skewed", but not the way you might think. The LEFT side (the one originally "centered" in the wheel opening) was actually 7/16" further back than the step side (which was already too far back)! He told me this is very common, and the frame is not a good measurement reference. He measured the distance to each axle tip from the hitch ball receiver to finally get it right.

Anyway, I'm including pictures of the new configuration, and the trailer is raised 1 1/2" too.

Now, In the first picture, you can see the tire is CENTERED in the wheel opening and in the second, there's "lots" of room between it an the step frame. Yow! You can possibly also see the increased height of the trailer itself, relative to the wheels (1 1/2"). There's really room all around now and it means I can mount larger, Load range C tires on these rims that will safely carry a heavier load!

Finally, the left side. Here, the tire is clearly "forward" in the wheel opening, about like it was "back" in the step side opening before. I've drawn some lines to show how to correct this with a new piece of sheet metal if I get so I can't stand the look - but so far, it doesn't bother me.

There was one small issue: The lift mechanism adjustment bolts had to be cut down to keep them from hitting the left tire in its new position if the tire is forced up into the wheel well. I really didn't see this as a problem though. The cables HAVE needed adjustment (due to stretching) and that always moved the bolts OUT. So, unless I replaced the cables, and needed new adjustment capability, it would not be a factor. (I'd just put new bolts in if I did that.)

The hitch weight with the trailer in its "empty 3520# state" is now 370#! Almost exactly what I had calculated it would be (10.5% of the total weight). So, If I add water to bring the total weight to 3820#, the hitch weight should be 540# - about 14% of the total weight and safe for my 600# hitch..

I still have to respect the 3500# axle limit of course, but if I subtract the hitch weight and the weight of the tires, there's a bit of leeway.

Whew! Looks like I'll keep this trailer a bit longer!

- Jack

That might work, if there's enough overlap. I'm not sure there will be. (And, for what it's worth, the opening will have to be moved "forward", but the concept is the same.)

As I said though, the off center wheel does not really bother me much. After all, I lived with the right side being off center for three years! :o

- Jack

Good deal Jack , looks like you found somebody that knew what they were doing to move the axle.Happy to see you ready to hit the road . Enjoy.

Id think if you dont have anything hanging below where the fender stops where you have it drawn, put a lot of tape on the side that stays , mark it out and cut that badboy with a jigsaw, then get that trim stuff and re do that welting that is on the edge of the opening.

I used to build Eldorado Motorhomes and Busses, years ago. I used to put that stuff on lots of things I built for campers and busses. {Funny, right now I cant think of what it is called and what they called it at the factory} I was just a kid then, and of course that RV business has long since closed.

I don't think you should overload your trailer. When loading your trailer, make sure everything has a place and is easy to get at when needed. Remember that a properly balanced trailer can give you safety and good driving in any road.

I know this is a day late and a dollar short, but I was reading y'alls post.
My 17' is a 1997 and has dual axles... The newer models seem have a single axle - so you must be right that you are working very close to the capacity of the undercarriage; as the same amount of trailer is now being carried on half the number of axles. --j

That's interesting information, bongo. I DO wish the smaller trailers had dual axles now. If nothing else, it makes changing a tire easier, since you can just pull the good one up on a ramp and let the other one hang. And, those "expandable" chocks that go between tandem wheels are great (if you have tandem axles).

I also think having a blowout/flat might result in less damage with a tandem axle assuming you recognized it right away (and I would, with the tire pressure monitors I use).

- Jack