Aluminum Roof Holes
 

Posted this in another thread, but needs it's own.

My used camper has what I thought was a minor water damage spot. I keep taking more ceiling out. I have about 1/4 of the ceiling out.

Found the leak, it is holes in the actual roof, like decayed spots. Ceiling is wet, but not rotted. Pulling out all ceiling below the foam and will install new ceiling in front half. Metal frame is very rusted in spots and in spots I can punch through with the putty knife. Ideally I would pull entire roof off, new metal framing, and redo it all, but that is more than I want to put into this used camper of 20 years. Plan to fix the minimum.

What is the best fix for these holes? Most of the roof does not have them, but will eventually I am sure. Rubber coating? I am thinking maybe just lay new aluminum sheets over the roof at the bad half. Best glue?

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...ecay-holes.jpg
Patched with duct tape for now.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...-roll-tape.jpg
Pictured next to roll of tape.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...lack-spots.jpg
Holes are the black spots.
I assume this is an aluminum roof. Not steel???

That appears to be galvanic corrosion, caused by contact between dissimilar metals. I think you'll find steel screws or nails underneath the corroded spots? I've not had to repair any of these holes in my roof but others have used Bondo to fill them. Then, since you have a painted aluminum roof, I'd coat it with two coats of white elastomeric roofing paint.

- Jack

There is the square steel tubing glued directly to the roof, but that might be insulated enough with the glue between, assuming there is glue. However, the holes are not along the steel frame area, but are all over. Mostly concentrated in a small area. I am thinking maybe it was parked under a low-touching branch at one point, keeping the roof wet.
I am wondering if these corroded from the inside or from the outside.

Possible the holes are not the source of the water originally.

Has anyone seen water come in at the wall/roof corner and run uphill along the slanted roof? That would be called capillary movement or something…. Which would mean possible leak at the top of wall.
But then how would it get from ceiling to roof???

Main question is still, what is best to fix? A paint on rubber coating?

Bondo, or maybe fiberglass epoxy I am thinking also of possible hole patches before the coating.

As a corrosion control team member in aviation, I can tell you this: galvanic (dissimilar metal) does NOT require an actual metal to metal contact. As the trailer is used, humidity turns to condensation. The moisture is everywhere, trapped in the ceiling, this causes a tiny electrical current, just like a battery. This moisture does not have to "flow", it's just there. Therefore, the pinholes are formed from the INSIDE and WILL continue to get larger, regardless of what is done to the outside, short of cutting out each affected area, patching and sealing.
I ground mine with a wire wheel with a vacuum attached, used a magnet after, patched and Eatherbonded over it, and told the buyer what I had done.
One last note, An RV dealer/repair shop in GA is said to have replaced an aluminum roof with a rubber roof. I'm sure it can be done.
Tree

OOPS! Sorry, that was Eternabond tape

I had the same problem when I repaired mine in 2012. Holes in the aluminum scattered throughout the right rear quarter of the camper (passenger side). From what I could tell the roof is made of from outside in, aluminum skin, 1/8 inch sheeting, One inch styrofoam, and the 1/8 inch ceiling panels. I repaired mine by scabbing right angle metal on the 1 inch tube where needed. Then I bought a roll of eternabond tape and from the top put patches on all the holes. Then I coated it with 2 coats of white elastomeric paint. Summer of 2017 five years later I could see where the roof was starting to form some rust spots so out came the eternabond tape and then 2 more coats of the elastomeric paint. I caught all the rust spots before they had time to cause a problem and in the summer of 2018 I'm going to put 2 more coats on. Here is the video I made when I repaired mine in 2012 if your interested. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxjqL-nqdeY

Nice vid and renno.
How do the cabinets bolt in? I can see the screws around the door opening, but others are covered going to the wall.
What adhesive are you using to glue the foam? I see a big bucket.
Liquid Nails will melt the foam, as LN heats up when curing, but I guess you got enough bonding somewhere in there for it to work.

So, galvanic corrosion started because of humidity inside? The roof is aluminum, right, what is the magnet for, the frame?

I was hoping the foam bonded to the roof directly, but sounds like there is another plywood bonded to roof. So, the plywood bonded to the roof is wet and will continue to corode the roof?
It won't dry behind the foam, so the foam needs to come out, but will the plywood then dry enough to leave it or needs to come out? I have a heater in there helping dry things out right now. I am worried about tearing the roof if I try to remove the plywood that is glued to it.

Marininn, The cabinets have a false bottom in them. Inside you will see staples holding the bottom down. Liquid Nails will not melt the foam as it isn't made from the same stuff it was made from years ago. I used more than 20 tubes of Liquid Nails. It doens't stick as quick as the stuff that was made 30 years ago, but it also doesn't smell (low VOC). You may find the plywood between the aluminum and the foam will have delaminated if not it will dry. Anything that is rotten needs to come out because of possible mold. BTW just tear the plywood out that is loose.

Thanks, I see the bolts on cabinet now.

I pulled all the styrofoam out of the ceiling where it was wet. Fortunately it is only the front 1/4 needing work. I still need to get a bit of it under the to-be-removed cabinets, but hoping it is just a few inches.

Neck tired from looking up, so taking break…

In year 2001 Liquid Nails would melt the the foam, now you are saying it will not. Is the cheap $1.44 "construction adhesive" just as good for foam?

I am also considering using Glidden's Gripper paint as it is some sort of styrofoam based paint, and works to stick it together well, at least for other projects Ive read about.
Hoping someone has tried this for ceilings.

garyk52, why did the holes come back? Was moisture still getting up there?
How did the rubber do over time sticking to the eternal tape? I have some tape like that I planned to use to tape solar panels on, but can use the extra to tape my 28 holes.
Gary, you had "carpet" bucket there, was that the glue for ceiling?
How are the angle irons holding up? Mine is not cracked, but very thin and I pushed a hole in it in a place. Worried to drill a hole like u did to bolt in angle iron. The factory holes for the wiring, too big for one, and stupid for factory to put a hole through the vertical part of tube two. I am thinking maybe gluing it on. I have a gap above, probably since metal frame droops now, and can put one angle above the frame, that might help to hold it all.
Gary, you build wooden rectangle frames, what is purpose of those?

If I wanted to spend $1k and had a barn to work under and more time maybe I would just re-do the entire roof and make it right. I just need it to stay dry and look nice.
My theory is that the couple living in the camper 6 months right before I bought it exhaled moisture, and the one on the bunk had head under where the water damage is. Seems like moisture would go everywhere,but this is just a thought why damage is just in one spot. Maybe they showered and didnt vent or let the water dry before closing it up. I want to make sure this does not happen again… Maybe rain water entered at the metal seam, as there is a hole at the seam too.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/mem...uter-layer.jpg
Wall with all but the last ply stuck to wall. Rusty metal.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/mem...et-ceiling.jpg
Ceiling, I have since pulled out the foam and most of the plywood glued to the roof. Leaving the plys that are not buckled away. I think they will dry and be fine.
More pics to come…

eternabond tape over seams aluminum Patches on big holes and elastomeric paint

Check out mine 1977 Hi-Lo went thru what your going thru

MrEd , looks like you just did a complete rebuild. Im hoping to do a few fixes.

Marininn, I took Sams advice and just used regular Liquid Nails (yes construction adhesive). I bought mine wherever it was the cheapest (Walmart), I probably used more than I needed, however I don't have any sidewall or ceiling panels coming loose in 5 years.

Those are new holes that started to come thru, after all you're talking about a 21 year old camper aluminum roof. I'm sure it's going to be a never ending process keeping up with them. The camper isn't showing any moisture on the inside that I can see. No probem with the elastomeric paint over the eternabond tape, sticks well use a 3/4" nap roller to put the paint on. Mine uses about 1 gallon per coat.

Started with carpet adhesive but changed to Liquid Nails. The carpet adhesive was drying hard and figured that would be a problem over time.

Angle Iron is working great, drilled holes in the 1" tube and bolted the angle iron to it. Was going to weld it, but was afraid I would burn the camper down. Scab 2 pieces of angle to each area you need to reinforce. Can you make the angles long enough to get to solid metal? Then glue and bolt.

The wooden rectangle frames are for gluing and stapling 1/8 inch luan where I removed the old ceiling and foam before replacing with new, then sheeted the whole ceiling with new painted panels. I don't know how much time or money you want to invest, but I took all the vinyl from the ceiling panels before I glued the new panels up. I found a few wet spots when I took the vinyl off and then ran a fan a couple of days to make sure the whole ceiling was dry. I now have 2 layers of 1/8" luan (plywood) on the ceiling.

You have the same problem I had, age of the camper and lack of maintanence and probably stored outside in the weather. I can't complain thou, I bought mine for a dollar and have less than $2000.00 in a camper that costs $30000.00 when new. This will last me the rest of my camping days.

That's good to hear.


did the carpet adhesive dry faster? I think Im fine with it being harder, think I like that better as it would be more like a surfboard, hard and with structural integrity. With the steel frame compromised it needs help. Even if it cracks here and there, so what, it will still hold the pieces together…

I had some left over cheap construction adhesive *. Put some on the old foam, and also glued a piece of the plywood to it. in garage, maybe cold, but is what camper will be in December too, it did not cure overnight. The glue stuck great where was just exposed glue and dried, but under the wood was still wet, and popped off easily, so if I do that with panels it will take a week to dry…
So, I think the faster drying $4 stuff instead.

It rained yesterday, found there were many, many more holes than I could see. Covered in plastic now.

If you are reading this and think your camper is fine: it is not. Re-caulk everything! Lay rubber coating on the old roof. Be paranoid.

$2500 for this camper, still a good deal as the next ones are over $5k used and no guarantee they are perfect, so a few hundred in repairs made saving $2k not a bad deal. $1 would have been a lot better.

* unrelated - I did a gettho floor repair. The OSB floor at the rear was exposed completely to the open. The rear bumper shroud separated and let water in, another weakness in design. The OSB rotted out, but only the interior. The bottom of the OSB, open to air was fine, and the top was fine, or the top being the linoleum floor. I gutted out the rot and squirted in some Liquid Nails. Should dry hard and this area was not really structural so should be the end of it. Im sure there are other problems more pressing than floor issues in unseen places.. lol.
Anyway, used the cheap adhesive on last part. I had about 8 bottles of good LN and two of cheap. The cheap stuff is not drying nearly as fast.

Repairs
 

Garyk52 did a nice write up for you. Clarification..Used Heavy Duty liquid nails. The regular strength didn't hold up. We repaired in the cold weather and kept the furnice running at 60*. Long Johns needed. Every 2to3 days we had to refill the propane. Our saving grace was that we live close to the Indian Reservation and could get cheap tax free propane.

Sam, every 2-3 days? How many days did it need to cure?

More photos os deconstruction. I plan to put angle iron down the length of the roofline inside to help lift the sagging door, and this will add strength to the ceiling tubing. Going to put a plate over the door, plate recycled from kick plate on interior school door.
I may put some square tubing at an angle around the door to give strength also.
Will put in 1x3 wood strip inside walls in places also.
Ceiling will get the crossmember such as over bathroom wall, this should add strength to rusty tubing holding up AC.

Yes, I need to do a complete roof redo. Not going to happen this cycle, maybe next year when Im not remodeling an entire camper at the same time…


https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...holes-roof.jpg
Stripped down. I plan to take out last layer of ply later, not during the rain.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...ess-places.jpg
Frame not any good.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...rain-today.jpg
Door exposed, just incase anyone wonders whats back there…
I took screws out of the green padding, but the pad will not come off. Is it glued or stapled somewhere? I know how these builders love staples. Door will have to be removed.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...ded-tubing.jpg
This is what holds the bunk up.

I took screws out of the green padding, but the pad will not come off. Is it glued or stapled somewhere?

Dig around in those holes and you will find 2 more long screws holding the head bumper on. Don't remember if they are phillips head or robertson screws.

Top half of door comes off by taking the rubber (plastic) trim off the door on the outside and removing screws.

The bunk from mine hangs in my shed in a mattress bag. Only 2 of us, won't reinstall unless I decide to sell the camper.

Repairs
 

We also used the heat to make us more comfortable while we were working. I think you need to fix your roof with a total tearout before you fix the walls. GaryK52 correct me if I am wrong. I would hate to see you fix the walls and then have them get trashed/wet because the roof isn't fixed. Gary said he spent all his free time for an entire summer working on his HiLo.

I will stop the water with a rubber paint-on coating. If the corrosion continues in the roof, then when I have time I can tear the roof off completely. There is no aluminum in the walls to go bad, and the water will be stopped so he walls should be good to go.
Yes, the issue of galvanic corrosion will remain, and Im sure there is moisture somewhere in the untouched realms of the ceiling. I can't replace it all now as I am on a deadline. I will be using this for work as I travel all over. Im not retired, don't have as much spare time as I need. Camping/traveling starts in January, absolute deadline is end of January.

Spray a tea tree oil mixture To kill mold

Tearing out more ceiling.
Steel tubing in ceiling rusted out pretty bad in spots, so glueing oak wood to reinforce it. The cold is slowing things down.
I may put a couple of screws in, but might be pointless given the rust.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...img-4264-1.jpg
Dry ceiling (until I wash roof)

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...6-img-4268.jpg
This is all I am replacing for now.Temp fix, hoping it last years.
Why: pulling out the wet wood and foam is easy, the good part is very hard to remove as it is bonded well, and too much potential to damage good part of roof, no reason to replace good roof either.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...img-4267-1.jpg
Rusted out frame that supports AC unit. Sistering the steel with oak wood, and will support all that with a cross-member such as is used for bathroom area.
AC held in with 3 long bolts only. Hex head. Remove bolts and whole thing drops easily.
I'm tempted to put AC unit in garage since I rarely used AC this year.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...r/1099-cr2.jpg
The rusted out steel I am dealing with.
Have since ground out rust with brush down to clean metal and glueing supports on for strength.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...img-4266-1.jpg
Wall, to be finished after ceiling.

More work done since these photos.
I tested out some bonding glues.
Glidden's Gripper paint works very well to glue foam. The test showed the foam will rip apart before the paint releases.
Wood to wood or wood to aluminum using Gripper for glue is not any better than wood glue, so will use LN for that.
Gripper is about $20 per gallon, and 1 gal should be plenty to glue all the foam, even for entire roof.

Next up is a 13 foot angle iron at ceiling/wall to support the door sag.
I will have to weld together two pieces to get the length I need then bolt two together if I cant get 13 footer in the door…

Sistered in some oak boards to help give strength. A couple of screws through the rusty steel frame just for fun. When I put in the crossmember then this will take load off the steel frame under the AC, so I think this will be strong enough.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...ster-frame.jpg

Next step is wait for warmer weather, wash roof, which will get ceiling wet again, then put on rubber roof coating, then I can install ceiling…

I really like the buttressing of the roof, looks good.

Thanks, hope it holds. Lots of rust, and wire brush could not get in every dimple.
I need a covered carport to work under, rain everyday possible the next week or more now.
I cant put in ceiling until roof is coated, and cant coat until I wash it and have time for rubber coating to dry before rain hits it, and cant cover the roof without tarp touching wet coating, cant put solar panels on until coating is down.

My thoughts when I ever do replace entire roof is to use the 2 inch foam panels instead of the stock 1 inch size. My first camper build had 5-6 inches of fiberglas insulation in roof, and thick insulated walls. On a cold night I'd turn on the heat for five mins and that was all I needed for hours. (Had smaller windows and covered then with cardboard at night too, so less heatloss there).
Anyone tried thicker panels?
I'm wanting to add another inch os foam insulation above the bunk bed somehow to make it useable on cold or very hot days…

Glued, with LN, thin plywood to the roof from the inside. (Rubber coating the roof at the same time, but the cold stopped that for a while, but I think roof water tight now.)
By leaving the roof on means having to scab a bunch of plywood pieces into place in and around the frame. Slow going without unlimited number of braces.
Am actually glueing the first foam insulation in now.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...ation-foam.jpg
ceiling glued in, which gives roof support.

You can see the board with the screws in it. It is a one inch board, same as frame. This supports the rusty frame supporting the AC area. I will run a board across the ceiling to support this board. Same as is for bathroom.
The board has pieces of sheet metal, steel, screwed to it top and bottom on both ends, so it sandwiches the frame.

AC unit removed. I put it on a long wide board, slid it over to old camper roof,which is the same height, and left it there. No lifting involved. interior parts just dangling. Got an offer on the old camper, so need to find somewhere to put AC now… lol

Looks like you had to go all in

I ripped out 1/4 of the ceiling at least. ½ of the wall on that side.
Hoping no moisture left in ceiling where I left alone.
But, yes, all in for that area. Going easy, just taking too much time letting it dry and waiting on my supports (speaker stands) to be free for the next gluing.
I have started installing ceiling foam, and that should go quicker.

I am using Glidden Gripper paint for foam glue. I used LN in spots where I needed to fill gaps or on uneven surfaces like where the plywood does not match up level.

Time will tell…

That’s some nice work there - the Glidden Gripper is interesting, I hadn’t run across that in my own rebuild.

I also like the inside-out approach to the roof. I feel like you can get some better compression of the layers using the supports from underneath like that. I think my outer skin was too far gone to do the same thing (I had nothing to compress against with any reliability) but I like it.

Keep it up.

Thanks.
The Gripper worked fantastic in my bench test. The foam ripped apart before it pulled away from the board, but board to board glueing did not work, so is just for foam.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...ng-foam-up.jpg
The foam I glued with Gripper last night is solid so far. Doing next batch now…

I would be very interested to know how the factory assembles the roof/ceiling. Is it pre-assembled on a form then lifted into place, or is it built around the frame on top of camper…

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...ng-support.jpg
Homemade ceiling support. I needed more supports. So made this. two boards and one c-clamp. push up hard and clamp. You can always put boards at slant and kick it upright making it taller.

I used liquid nail

Ceiling is done, walls on their way…

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...mps-though.jpg
Orange tarp for rain.
I used some LN Sub-Floor cause it said it cures as low as 20 degrees. It is not as heavy duty as the Heavy Duty LN, takes a lot longer to cure, so I left the clamps on for a few days.
Hoping it holds over time.
I clamped where I could but used 2x4s and just screwed through the wall. Will make repairs later, but had to ensure the wall was held tight.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...-so-weaker.jpg
beam glued in for extra support under AC unit. This is where, on the right side, that the steel frame was so rusted. I had sistered up some sturdy wood to the frame, but this board will be my insurance policy. Plus the newly laminated ceiling is not as well laminated as factory, so weaker.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...foam-glued.jpg
Ceiling is all back up and cabinet installed. I will paint it later. Right above the green bed frame you can see the pine board that runs across the ceiling, supported by vertical boards on the walls. I will paint white later. This will help support the AC unit and keep roof up.

A tree fell on the roof, right where all the repair was made. No real damage, just minor. The roof came unstuck from the insulation foam in that spot. I punched a hold in the roof and injected 8 oz of Glidden Gripper paint there to maybe stick something together.
Later I will tackle the inside as a small 2-3 sq foot ares of ceiling has come unglued also (from the tree). It is still up but needs attention.
Everything else is holding up great. Over 20,000 miles and many many nights camping all over the country so far.
Still have not painted interior.

Hadn’t noticed that new beam on the roof - great idea there.

Yes, thanks. The board/beam on ceiling is working great. Also gives good place if I want to put a curtain rail up.
I should get photos of the finished interior too.

The wall panels did not hold. I knew glueing it in the cold was bad idea, but had no choice, I had to have finished by Feb. This is not an issue so much, but I want to fix it. I may just re-drill the holes I made in the wall and drip in some adhesive then bolt the wall together and leave the bolts in. I can find some flush mount bolt heads that will not look odd I think.

A heated garage would have been ideal, or warmer weather.

Today I finally was home long enough and there was no rain for long enough to put another rubber coat on the entire roof.

The curtain idea is certainly an interesting one, I hadn’t considered that. It works well on the back end to give some separation, it could be nice in the front too. Worth pondering a bit at least.