Electrical issues
 

I'm trying to figure this out and I'm pretty much at a stand still. I'm getting power to my outlets in the camper including the one in the pictures attached, but that all. I have no power on any lights, fridge, radio etc. The pictured box is apparently the charging system which is working according to when i unplug and replug it. I've checked power at my shoreline and its good, Power at the Breaker box is good. All the romex wire going in and out of my breaker box are showing power yet I still have no power going to anything other than my outlets (which may be 12v if I have a converter I guess). Do i have a inverter or a converter somewhere other than this charger?It very cold outside so I'm in and out checking stuff. Any advise or ideas?

Motorpig, I responded to your "top lowering" thread and it appears you have no 12V power in your trailer. The lights, radio, water pump, etc. are ALL 12V devices. They WILL not work off 120V. The refrigerator may be 120/12/gas, but it may need 12V for the controller.

Do you have a battery in your trailer? If you don't, I don't think you have a "completed" 12V circuit. I believe (and I could be wrong, of course) that the converter simply delivers 12V charging current to the battery. Then, the battery delivers 12V to the trailer. If the battery is missing, no 12V.

The other possibility is that the Master Switch is either in the "Top Lowering" or "Neutral (traveling)" position. But I doubt this is the case, since you've said the hydraulic pump is not working.

So, is there a charged battery in your trailer?

- Jack

Yes, its got a battery. Now, I don't know how good it is. I will say this, I unplugged my shoreline and the toggled the "lift - lower" switch and the motor did run strong. The attached picture is what my camper is showing the charge as being while unplugged and after i ran my lift lower test.

Now keep in mind. The lift and lower motor is hooked directly to the battery. The guy used a jumper wire and two toggles to bypass some other issue I guess he was having. So the motor is not running off the switches and wiring it normally would. I'm setting here brainstorming.......

I went out and turned the fridge to 120v keeping shore line plugged in. Maybe I'll know something in about 5 hours by the looking at the freezer. so darn cold outside impossible to tell from fridge..

This intended to be a hunting camper. I do tend to go a little overboard trying to fix things up. I had a 84 model hunting camper a paid 300 dollars for and sold it for 2500 after fixing it up. Once the family decided we like camping so much we recently purchased a 29ft outback. I didn't have anything this past hunting season to leave in the woods and was fortunate enough to have this one gave to me. The more I look at it the more I cant believe its as solid as it is. Yes, it has some issues but the floor is solid. This think could be a really nice camper if I take some pride in it and fix the roof and electrical the right way. Heck, I may sell my outback and this be our camper of choice If i can get it squared away. Thanks!

Looking at possible breaks in the 12v system. Look at the attached picture. Could this be a problem? looks like there use to be a wire going to it, maybe a ground?

Thats a breaker. Interesting discussion on that this summer. Follow this post all the way through and see if it offers any insight.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/f28/...breakers-4787/


But- I lean towards issues with the master power switch. Try all three positions with a light on-
rick

I agree with Rick, that's the second 30A circuit breaker. Since there's no wire at all to the other post, it's not being used as a breaker at all.

Without knowing how the rest of your wiring has been changed, I can't advise you on rewiring it. Rick gave a link to the discussion we had about why there are two breakers there and I suggest you look at it and try to figure out how yours matches and how it's different. But, I think not having a connection there is partly to blame for your problems. Just don't connect something willy-nilly without knowing why you are doing it. (But, in reading your other posts, it's clear to me you understand electrical circuits and I doubt you would do that.)

If your lift motor ran, were you able to lower the top?

- Jack

Thank yall. Looks like I've got a lot of research ahead of me. The camper was given to me for free! I'm looking forward to the project. I recently sold my other hunting camper and figured this one would be great being that I can lower it down to get it down some of our trails that have trees hanging over. The camper is pretty darn solid. Pretty surprised once I started digging through it. The roof will need some repair and one of the walls. The Hot water heater, Fridge and AC look brand new. However, I have yet to get the Hot water heater and AC to work yet due to my electrical issues. The outside could literally look like a new one once I get a chance to start cleaning it up. Heck, I'll likely not want to use it for hunting once I finish it. I currently have a 30ft. outback also which I purchased after I sold my last hunting camper. We actually started out camping in my 84 model hunting camper which I cleaned up enough not to be ashamed to haul it to some local campsites. After that first trip with the family we where hooked and had to upgrade. Now the opportunity to have another hunting camper along with my family camper. Awesome!

Welcome to the forum.
 

Just wanted to welcome you to the forum. Our guys are very good about answering electrical questions. We are a very friendly and helpful group.

Motorpig

Just re-reading things and looking closer at your photos. I am now wondering if that IS a charger/converter you have there? Most of us have converters/chargers installed- and of course the converters feed the 12v stuff in the trailer-which is most of it. I don't see a brand name on that thing nor anything else indicating it is more than a charger. I am beginning to think this guy was messing with a lot of the electrical and ,maybe, thats why you got it for free?? I didn't go back and check your original post as to year and model- but I am not aware of units where a charger and converter were mounted separately and in different parts of the trailer. Also- seemed like there was a solar monitor panel in one of the photos- so there should be a charge controller for the solar panel somewhere, also. Seeing as you got it for free- maybe its worth the money to go to a decent RV repair place or somewhere where they work on RV electrical systems and pay a couple of hours of labor to figure out whats what??? And FYI, in case you were unaware, the AC has its own chord that plugs into a 110 outlet for the AC to work- and you plug it in and out after it is raised and before it is lowered.

"Do i have a inverter or a converter somewhere other than this charger?" No, did you take a multimeter and check for 12+ volts between the red which is positive and the white which is negative. If you have 12 volts or better you need to follow the red wire and see where it goes. I think you either have a fuse blown on the red wire somewhere or the red wire is either broken or not hooked up. The other photo showing the arrow, I can't see where the heavy red wire is going and I have a feeling you're missing a heavy red positive wire where arrow is from your converter/charger. BTW the company that makes that charger is out of business Todd Manufacturing. There's one listed on ebay for $300.00. Worth about $15.00 :)

Thanks guys. I'm off tomorrow and other than it raining, I'm hoping to get out there and start digging in a bit deeper and try some the things ya'll suggested. I plugged the fridge up yesterday and discovered that indeed it does work. After reading the above post I finally found where the AC was unplugged in the bathroom. Plugged it up and it to works! So far so good. Just got to figure this 12v. stuff out. I

Question: If I plug the trailer up to my truck as if it was being towed, is that suppose to supply power for the lights?

Looks like you're making progress!

But, if you don't have interior lights or other 12V items with just the battery, I don't think you are going to get them by hooking the trailer to a tow vehicle. The tow vehicle simply supplies power to charge the battery through the 12V Pos and Neg wires at the trailer plug. But it also supplies the power for the trailer running/stop/turn signal lights, and for the trailer brakes through the other wires.

You may have mentioned this in one of your other posts, but if you did, I don't remember. All of the 12V appliances and interior lights are protected by individual fuses in their circuits. Have you checked all the fuses? If you have, and they are good, is there 12V to the input side of them? The Master Switch has to be in the full opposite position from the Raise/Lower setting for 12V power to be delivered there.

- Jack

I haven't located a fuse box yet. I would of thought it would of been by the breaker box, but its not. Surly they are not all inline fuses. Any idea where else the fuse box might be? I've looked in the area outside near the battery too.

Motorpig, I can't believe the guy just GAVE it to you. Such a deal.....Take your time with this little electrical problem, fix things correctly and you'll have a fine trailer. Look for your 12V fuse box in odd locations,. First place to look is in the bathroom areas, for instance INSIDE the bathroom sink vanity. Yup, that's where ours was. Keep us posted on your electrical progress.

Motorpig, my fuses are under the couch, near the fridge. But, the location seems to be all over the place in these campers. I would have thought yours would have been near your converter.

All I can tell you is to look under everything for the location. It SHOULD be in the lower half at least. It shouldn't be in an area that would be exposed to moisture, such as the trailer tongue. But, if you can trace some of the wires that originate there, they might lead you to it.

- Jack

Looking again I notice the " indicator panel" which contains idiot lights for tank capacities and the battery state of charge appears to have been partially deconstructed. .??? So, who knows what the previous owner was attempting but whatever it was it appears he was doing it badly!

Yeah, I restored a 84 leisure craft a few years ago. It was a mess but every single thing electric worked in it. This thing is 10 times the camper that one was before I started on it. The floor in this one is solid and will require ceiling replacement in one large area, and a area of the wall in that same area. This one could look like almost new with a little bit of work. I'm going to take my time and do things right. I'm really excited about it. Cant wait for it to warm up some so I can stay out there working. The wife isn't all that excited though. She knows how much time I spent on the last fixer-upper.

Yeah, I was looking at that. It looks like the transparent film that goes over the top of it with the writing on it just came off. I was planning on trying to find that piece today.

Well, I find the fuse block under the sink in the bathroom. All the fuses were good but that's not saying anything due to the guy before good of changed them out to no avail. Look at the picture. They look discolored at the connection like they got moisture to them. Also the ones I the far left that I've already pulled out did look like they tranfered some flash burn to the plastic. I know I need to start at the source and work my way to the fuse box first to possible not fix something that will just get re-fried. But if I do need to replace this fuse block is it much of problem? I need to test the converter but I'm not very good with a meter.

It appears, to me, that there is one single input to the fuse block and that is the single large gauge red wire that attaches to the right side in the upper picture. If you put your multimeter in the DC volts range (possibly on a 20V setting, since you're looking for 12V), and then probe the attachment screw for that wire with the positive probe while the negative probe is connected to a ground (you may need to run a jumper wire to the negative terminal of the battery for that) you SHOULD read 12+ volts there. If not, and if you don't get 12+V probing anywhere else on that block, your problem is in the feed to the block.

I don't really think the discoloration is significant, unless the electrical connections are "rusty", which would mean they need cleaning. You can always clean anything that is discolored though.

I don't have a clue what that silver 5-position binding strip on the right (bottom in the second picture) is for.

Honestly, though, the fuse holder itself looks fine to me. I think there's a supply problem, possibly a poor connection at the other end of that large red wire. I suspect it originates at one of the two 30A circuit breakers in your battery box.

Do you know how to test a wire for continuity?

- Jack

The 5 lug connector at the bottom looks to be a ground terminal. I had to replace one on a pop-up I had.

but nothing is grounded to it. Maybe Motorpig can use it for the ground for checking voltage that jack was referring to.

I think that grounding bus is just excess baggage. There doesn't appear to be any form of grounding wire connected to it and would have no function.

I agree with Rich

Me too! :D

- Jack

Ok guys. My ego can handle one correction, even two, Three in a row is a bit rough. Im going to do self affirmations now. :)

Thanks again ya'll. I took off work today to work on camper and the weather man missed it. Its been raining all day so hard to really get out there and crawl up under the camper to see where what wires are going where. I still haven't got 12v feed to my 12v block yet. I did test the charger and battery which is showing 13v. at the circuit breaker near the battery. What confuses me is that looking at the fuse block it is showing a red wire feeding it. However the only red wire I can find anywhere thats that size is the one coming from the charger going to the circuit breaker near the battery. Shouldn't there be another then running from the same point going back to the 12v. block. Look at the posted pictures. The only wire feeding back to the camper from the circuit breaker is a black one (which I don't know where it goes yet.

For testing purposes, could I disconnect the 12v block feed wire and run another one from the battery compartment where I know I'm getting 13 volts and tie into the block with it? Just to narrow my issues down?

Everybody gets a turn in the barrel now and then. ;)

I believe the white wire coming off the converter is the ground wire and it should connect to the ground bus under the floor. The other end of the ground bus comes through the back of the battery compartment where the two white wires are connected.

I noticed that there is only one terminal on the breaker on the right. There should be wires to both. I would say that the red wire coming from the other breaker should be on the unused terminal. As it is the breaker is serving no function other than being a common terminal. The breaker is there for a good reason. Test across the breaker to see if it is good.

Yes, you certainly could. If you decide to simply leave it in place, which might not be a bad idea if you can't find the problem, I'd use 10 gauge wire.

I think the white wire from your converter is the ground wire too, just like you and Rich are thinking.

Referring to my wiring diagram, I suspect the large gauge (#10) black wire to the CB in the battery compartment is the +12V battery charging wire from the tow vehicle trailer connector. But, it might be the +12V feed to the hitch lift motor. Mine has two 10 gauge black wires to the left circuit breaker and they serve those purposes.

Like Rich, I think the red feed into the fuse block should come from the other post of right hand circuit breaker in the battery compartment. I THINK it should do that by way of the Master Switch that overrides the Up/Down switch.

- Jack

I tested both sides and am showing 13.35 volts on each. I will say this... the person that had it before me rewired the lift motor switches and used toggle switches in the battery compartment. I'm suspecting that the lift motor was originally connected to the other side of the Circuit? Or maybe not.

Thats does make since.



Man, I'm getting lost brainstorming all this, lol. If thats the case then how should I rewire my Lift motor the proper way? Sorry for all the questions. makes it hard not ever knowing how it was originally.

So, the former owner removed the Master Switch. That's not good. It keeps the top from being lowered if anyone is inside. And it helps to keep power from being delivered to anything but the refrigerator while you are traveling. Which will keep the hot water and water pump off, for instance.

I like your idea of restoring the original wiring plan.

Hang on, let me find the wiring diagram.

- Jack

OK, this should help. https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/f51/...ry-wiring-116/
The one that's most useful to you would be the second one that shows the two Circuit Breakers.

I found my trailer was a bit different than what that shows (regarding the connections to those circuit breakers), but the differences are fairly minor and I think what it shows will work fine.

I'll study it a bit more and let you know if I see any problems.

Edit: OK, I've looked, and I don't see why that diagram would not work as well as what I have in my trailer.

You should try to trace your red fuse box supply wire and find out what's at the other end. It SHOULD have gone to the three position Master Switch so that power is received from the battery if the switch is in the "up" (interior devices) position. That switch would also have a second #10 red wire that goes back to the second circuit breaker. Finally, that switch feeds, through an inline fuse, the Up/Down switch when the switch is in the "down" (top movement) position. If the switch is in the center "neutral" position, it disables battery power to everything.

But, the refrigerator can always receive 12V power through a blue wire that is also attached to the right CB.

I hope I'm not confusing you - it's hard to discuss a wiring diagram in words.

- Jack

I guess this is the mater switch you are talking about?

Hmm, maybe I should see where that red wire is going. Maybe thats the one that goes to the 12v block. That would make since ya'll talking about it shutting off power to certain things when switched off. If not its at least part of the missing link.

Well, that's where the Master Switch and the Lift Switch are supposed to be. The lift switch in my trailer is white and is spring loaded to the center (neutral) position. The Master Switch is black and has three positions - Up (interior), Middle (travel) and Down (Lift System activated). It will stay in any of those three positions.

Yes, DO trace that red wire! And, see my post just before your last one.

- Jack

THATS IT! Finally... That is the wire he cut and and just let hang under the camper. I Did a continuity test and its the same wire that supplies power to the 12v Block. Thank yall so much. Thats one major step in the right direction. Thanks Again!!!