HiLo renno
 

I just bought a 97 22L
It needs lots of work.
One thing I will do is remove the toilet permanently. Black water is gross, smells, hard to clean and I do not have passengers that require to poo in the camper.
How much will it lessen the re-sale value if I do not replace it should I ever sell it, or should I plan to be ready to put it back in one day? There is no right answer to this, just opinions of each individual I guess.
Has anyone done this?

Also, I plan to remove the giant couch/bed at the front. It is huge and not much of a bed. This will open up a lot of space and reduce tongue weight a little.
What did you do with the space if you did this? (for those that have)

I will be traveling in this for work and living alone, with just day visitors and rarely friends to stay the night. I don't need so much seating, bedding and people area, looking to make it more comfortable for living in.

What have any of you done as far as taking out the factory installs and making it custom?

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...rior-renno.jpg
https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...renno-back.jpg
I have removed all curtains (smoker smell) and blinds, and the divider for bathroom, again odors. Planning to order HomeDepot blinds instead of the day/night shades, and also put curtain fabric down the sides and top of blinds, and maybe just curtains for the smaller front windows and forward window.

Blinds from Home Depot
 

You will not be able to order slot blinds from HoMe Depot as the header is too wide to come down the wall. I already made this mistake. I tried ordering from an internet blind place. I told them numerous times that I needed a narrow bracket. When the blinds came they wouldn't fit. They had the conversation on tape. I had to donate the new unopened blinds to the salvation and send them the donation receit. I ended up rattle can painting the old blinds. I needed new rods for my curtains(original 1990) and got the rods at Kmart. I had to use some of the old hardware because of the dimension going down the wall. Search back posts for replacement curtain ideas that others have done. I wonder if an ozone generator would take care of the cigarette smells. Best of luck with your repairs.

Did u get 1 inch or 2 inch headers? Looks like they have 1 inch that should fit easily.

New blinds
 

I will be over to my HiLo one day soon and will measure. I will let you know what the correct measurement is.

You must have ordered giant blinds, as there is no reason the 1 inch should not easily fit down, the factory curtains are bigger than that.
No need to measure, i can't imagine any issues.

Couch gone, lots of floor space now. Bike will be happy to be inside.

We took the dinette out for more room and made an "L" shaped couch out of it for more floor space.

I think for resale you would do well to have a toilet. :)

We didn't have any blinds when we got our Hi-lo but we bought those little round curtain rods and attached them to the wall with I guess they are plastic pipe brackets. They hold the rods close to the wall so they don't get in the way when we lower the Hi-Lo. The curtains we just pull up out of the way when we lower it.

Don't buy blinds from Home Depot
 

DH says the header on the standard blinds are a 1inch cube. 1x1x1x1x1. New blinds come with at least a 1 and 1/4 header that won't fit when you lower the HiLo. I ended up loosing a 15% stocking fee. Just trying to get you to not make the same mistake. I could see how a close fitting round curtain knob would work. My curtains have a top piece that goes on a round rod.

Odd. I can fit probably 3 inches between the walls.
The daynight shades I took out are about the same thickness as the blinds hanging from my house window, and then there were curtain things over that.
Sounds like you have a smaller gap between walls than does mine.
I will double check the measurements just incase, but a 3 inch gap and a 1 1/4 inch blind does not leave room for mystery…
I can't imagine why yours did not fit.

Different measurements
 

My unit is a 1990 25ft. Classic. Your is a 97. Could be different. Measure and maybe get a cheap plastic blind at walmart and try one before you change them all. I know you said you were going to make curtains. Try looking at back posts for ideas.

I like your thinking on making mods that benifit the way you want to camp.

One thing to remember when removing or adding weight is the balance. A lot of calculations have gone into your trailer having the proper tongue weight. In removing the couch you will save weight but you will be upsetting the balance and may have a trailer that will be difficult to tow or possibly dangerous.

Be smart for your and others safety!

Good point. That extra empty space will be more opportunity to over-load the tongue in this instance though. I want to put a chest of drawers built in, but that will only partly compensate for the couch, but the couch was not that heavy.
I will add two batteries and those will be tongue weight since need to be close to TV.
The couch is such a huge space waster.

Re: weight distribution I'm assuming this is a common sense issue and that there's no way to measure this - except that I have seen trucks obviously weighted down!

No, there ARE ways to measure the weight distribution on a trailer. One way is to do two weighings on something like a CAT scale, one with the trailer connected to the Tow Vehicle so that the weight on the trailer axles does not include the tongue weight, and then one with the trailer "dropped" on the scale, so it sees the entire weight.

Another way is to own a tongue weight scale like I do. Then you only need to know the total trailer weight.

If the TV is sagging in the rear, it's a sign that a Weight Distribution Hitch is either needed or is not properly set up.

- Jack

Tongue weight is mostly structural concern? There is a weight limit on the trailer tongue that should not be exceeded.
My hitch can take 2,400lbs on the ball, so the trailer tongue is weak link in the system, (or the frame which is probably not going to break before the springs bottom out.)…
I think worrying about a 50 lb couch is less than how you load your goodies up for the trip.
I guess you could encounter some sway from a lot of weight at the tongue, but not as bad as weight at the rear.
Big rigs and bumper pull horse trailers have wheels at the very back so the "tongue" is loaded quite heavy, the tongue being everything in front of the axles…
Let's not be worried about a couch.

Wow! Marininn has a Class 5 Xtra duty trailer hitch, capable of pulling a trailer weighing between 15,000-20,000#! This has to be mounted on a 3/4 or 1 ton truck, if that much tongue weight is applied, or the weight will greatly overload the Tow Vehicle's axles. Since a 22 ft HiLo rarely weighs over 5,000#, the hitch is overkill. But, you can certainly connect a HiLo to a hitch of that capacity.

Most of us don't have that much carrying capacity. I know I don't - my Class 3 hitch is rated at 600# tongue weight and 6000# for the trailer.

What was stated about the weight of a couch in reference to a Class 5 hitch is totally correct, but for most of us, we have to use a bit of judgement in how we add extra weight to the trailer.

And, to minimize trailer sway, you want 10-15% of the trailer's gross weight on the tongue. (12% seems to be about optimum).

- Jack

Would you mind posting a pic of what it looks like without the couch? What kind of bike are you putting in there? Just curious.

My class III broke, the IV was less than $200 new, and I installed it, so why not have something to match the TV's 17,000 towing rating…. And, I doubt this one will ever break towing campers.
Yea, a couch is not something to worry about in the grand scheme of things.
My trailer has weight dist bars, which seems over-kill to me, but that should help level out the ride. Havent towed it yet other than home.
Ill take a pic of floor plan next time the roof is up.

Jack/Marinn - where is the freshwater tank? Isn’t it over/just behind the axles on a Hi-Lo?

Not that it’s crucial info, more as a starting point for discussing weight/distribution. Distribution can change dramatically just from filling the freshwater tank (30 gal*11lbs=300lbs).

The couch isn’t really important, *distribution* is, and we all have to consider this every single time we take our trailers out. Which is why a tongue scale is so important an investment - just take the guesswork out for under $150 (5000lb scale on Amaxon right now for $145).

Get the trailer weighed empty one time. Then weigh whatever you’re going to add to ensure under the GVW for trailer and TV. Then use tongue scale to ensure proper loading.

All campers should come with a tongue scale, in my opinion.

As for bathroom - a camper without a toilet is not really much more than a Coleman. I think that will really kill resale. BUT...are you doing all this for resale or usabililty for you?

I drive my truck to the scale and weigh it. I go back and get the trailer and come back to the scale and pull the truck on it with the trailer hooked up( distribution bars NOT hooked up) but no trailer wheels on scale. The difference of the new weight to the old weight is my tongue weight. I then pull ahead and get truck axles OFF the scale but leave trailer wheels on it. The new weight is what I have on the trailer axles ( trailer weight minus tongue weight-which is how you drive more or less). If I want- I can pull off, set the distribution bars, and go back and figure how much weight I have thrown back onto trailer axles. My concern is not the tongue breaking- it is the weight on trailer axles and weight on my tow vehicle. Bot have a recommended maximum.

Rick

Knotty - my freshwater tank is right behind the A-frame tongue battery box, so filling it adds about 100# to the tongue load (about 1/3 of the full tank's weight. Other trailers may have different locations for that tank, but I suspect most are near the front. It's better, sway-control wise, to increase the weight on the tongue rather than decreasing it.

The black and gray water tanks in my trailer are at the rear, and my owner's manual says to empty them before towing. Full black and grey tanks would decrease the tongue weight.

I second your comment about weight "distribution".

- Jack

The fresh water tank should be somewhere close to the fresh water fill port.

Redid some plumbing. I alway make this mod. Bypass the pump so city water can flow into the tank, this way you can fill without standing there like a foon holding a hose.
Turn the valve and water flows through the red pipe, pex, into the tank, turn valve off and no water flows to the tank.
https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...x-plumbing.jpg
I will make a nice box covering it that makes a flat platform on top that is removable easily. I will put a hole over the valve so that is easy to reach in and turn as needed. This space where couch was is now storage area, and no, not concerned about weight forward of the axles.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...-fill-port.jpg
It's the red pipe to the right that flows to the tank.
Nice thing about PEX tubing is you can heat it safely, bend it as needed and save lots of money on pipe elbow fittings.


respond to above: took toilet out, did not render toilet unrepaiable, easy to reinstall for resale. toilets are gross, and no wife to tell me otherwise, so I use a clean and disposable bag in a bucket. I tried the portable toilets, but they still have to be cleaned out. My innards are the only thing I want to clean out and that involves toilet paper at the end of the job and is unavoidable no matter where it drops.

Water weighs 8 lbs per gallon btw. 8.35 to be exact

Tongue weight; I don't get the great concern. We used to overload the U-ahaul single axle trailer until the wheels bowed out when we were young, and that had to be severely loaded down tongue weight - the kind that would blow your ole mind. We knew loading too much behind the axles made it sway, so all went over or in front of axles. Towed fine, not ideal, but never had issues.
Amazes me how detailed campers get with all this then to find out they tow one state over once per year. Maybe I just have the greatest TV out there, but I've towed crazy trailers friends maybe loaded crazy and they all tow fine. To me, tongue weight means weight on my TV rear axles. I like to keep tongue weight correct for no reason other than so my truck springs don't bottom out. but if they do then thats fine too, it just tows the same. I never run too light tongue weight. I drive coast to coast all the time too. I even towed Homer trailer, the worst trailer, worst loaded, worst trailer ever and it was fine.
I do understand if you are towing with a minivan or something that is borderline shouldn't be towing a trailer with anyway then you should be annal as your life might be in danger even under the most perfect of situations.

That's a nice idea, marininn! Well done! I like to use PEX too - it's far superior to PVC.

- Jack

We bought a new regular camper which leaves me to rebuild my Towlite how I really want it. I plan on moving the floor plan around as well but ironically the front couch is the only thing that stays put. The heater, inverter, and water tank is all under that couch and where to door is for me it makes sense to be the main seating area. I plan on removing the whole inside kitchen and putting a smaller toilet only bathroom about right where the current fridge is. Then the kitchen gets moved outside to the rear taking up about the last 3' like a teardrop camper uses but with some bigger slide out units like on the Australian outback campers. The dinette can then be rotated and made bigger to go side to side and be a standard size queen when table down. My whole upper 1/2 I plan on remaking as a cedar strip, rounded more like a wooden airstream. Basically like an upside down boat for a upper shell.

I hope to start practicing this winter not on the trailer but in making a cedar strip topper for my long bed Ram.

I think it would make a really unique, new style but retro sort of camper that actually works better, is lighter, and more aerodynamic than the stock one.

Anyway, to the OP, I'm all for you making the camper work for you.

Be careful with that rear bumper kitchen not to make it too heavy back there, that will lead to a lot of sway. Teardrops are fine since they are short and the weight is so close to the axle anyway. Not the same on these.
One advice is to keep the left and right sides balanced as much as you can. These HILOs seem to have all the kitchen and fridge and storage on the left side so they get left heavy. The dinette is light and offers little storage, so nothing much gets stored on that side except blankets or other non-rolling things..
I would put the fridge on the dinette side to help with balance on mine if I were to redo it all.
What I notice on my Sunlite trailer, same issue with everything on the left, is that when I hit bumps the trailer kicks out to the left much more, or bounces to the left more. Sunlite is a light short trailer, so not a big deal for my giant truck, but HILO is bigger, longer and heavier, so could be more of an issue on rough roads.
Also, if you are near max weight, you will have more weight on the left tires, and that might put them over their suggested max load.
Good luck

I might move the axles and expect an overall lighter trailer but will put at least 15% of the finished, loaded weight on the tounge.

It's my understanding that 15% is the max tongue weight. The "ideal" loading, that I've read about, is around 12%. I know, the difference seems trivial, but adding tongue weight increases the load on your tow vehicle axles too.

12% gives you a bit of "slop" too, if you load cargo in your trailer.

- Jack

Here are a few videos to look at. Seems weight closer to the axle is most stable. You can click on more videos related that catch your eye…
Seems if you had to pick an end to overload that the tongue end is better than the rear end, but weight further from axle will make a trailer sway, and you cannot balance out front and rear with equal weight to even it out, it will just sway more…
Sway goes up with speed, so just tooling around the farm or around the local streets driving slow and it will not matter how you load it, but on highway is different.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFzrWHTG5e8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jk9H5AB4lM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEWtBV9I0U4

12% is ideal if you have a payload problem on the tow vehicle, otherwise the more weight on the tounge the better it will tow (probably to a point but 15% is nowhere near thar point). I want to keep this under 4000 pounds so we are talking at most 600-700 pounds on the tounge which on any standard tow vehicle is nowhere near it's payload. Could you get by with 400 pounds? Probably, but those low tounge weights always feel sketchy to me.

One wet spot on HiLo. Not so much structural, but needs to be fixed. I decided to try to leave the outer wall/siding intact and fix it from the inside. Pictured is partial demo of project. Window has to come out and waiting on time when I have a stretch of dry days and all materials at hand.

Not sure where water is getting in, but will seal the roof and that will fix leak.

Biggest issue for me is matching the ceiling covering. I plan to use what is on the bottom of the bunk for new ceiling and just make big wide crown molding to fill in the gaps - bed not as big as ceiling space.
Can't match the wall, so thinking of just painting the whole interior wall.

Dealing with the fix. What is best product to glue/laminate the insulation to the wood? I have heard Glidden Gripper, which I think is a paint, but it is sticky, glues Styrofoam and doesnt melt it.

Anyone who has DONE THIS I welcome input.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...uter-layer.jpg
Front right corner of trailer. Outer plywood with about half the plys gone. Rusty metal. Roof still needs a decision. i will probably pull the wet plywod out on that half of the ceiling, leave the styrofoam glued to the aluminum roof, and patch in a new ceiling. Option would be to let what is there dry and patch over it. It seems just wet, not rotted.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...et-ceiling.jpg
Roof metal framing.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...iling-well.jpg
Before the wall came out.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...et-ceiling.jpg
Ceiling BEFORE.

There is probably not enough metal left to weld onto with my Mig, but I am thinking of putting diagonals to the metal wall framing to help resolve the sagging door issue.

New issue I discovered, unrelated, is the floor are sagging at the sides. I think maybe the cable tension is pulling the framing down. PO seemed to have left the top up all the time. The framing that is welded to the mail trailer frame.

Advice since you asked.
 

I have a 1990 25ft. Classic that we have done major repair for wet damaged walls. We did not have to do ceiling repair. Some of the walls were ripped with a multi tool back to the fiberglass. Some of the walls were ripped back to expose the styrofoam insulation. Use a product like rust oleum to coat the rusty metal. Treat any exposed fiberglass with bondo. Be sure to use an industrial respirator and we were able to apply it with a chip brush. This will seal up any pinpoint holes you can't even see. We used Bondo by 3M. I looked this up on the internet and the liquid kind is listed. We did our repairs from Sept to Feb. 6yrs ago. We have been perfectly dry!!..We tried contact cement and liquid nails. Only the Heavy Duty liquid nails worked to glue the three layers together. Apply in a large s pattern. 1 tube per sheet of paneling. DH used a floor roller to firmly press all the layers together. Our experience was that nothing wet would dry out. Rip out anything wet. We found we had a leak around the interior AC outlet and the escape window. All you windows will need to be taken out and reinstalled with butyl tape and Lexel caulk. DH used spray foam and caulk to fill in any gaps. HD liquid nails is cheapest at Walmart. I would think you would have to repair your interior ceiling first. See posts by GaryK52 as he did ceiling rebuild. DH was able to remove the paneling in big pieces to use as patterns. Take pictures and measured drawings as you won't remember placement six months down the road. We started by covering all floors and counters with cardboard and used duct tape. The couches were covered with plastic. Eventually we had to remove one couch and the cupboards. Our HiLo dealer and J&R told use how to proceed with repairs. You can do this!!

I am having to take out large portions of the ceiling. Found the leak, it is holes in the actual roof, like decayed spots. Ceiling is wet, but not rotted. Pulling out all below the foam and will install new ceiling. Metal frame is very rusted in spots and in spots I can punch through with the putty knife. Ideally I would pull entire roof off, new metal framing, and redo it all, but that is more than I want to put into this used camper of 20 years. Plan to fix the minimum.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...ecay-holes.jpg
Patched with duct tape for now.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...-roll-tape.jpg
Pictured next to roll of tape.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...lack-spots.jpg
Holes are the black spots.


Sam,what is "DH"?
Did you put Liquid Nails on the foam?That cures hot and melts foam board, though whatever does not melt is glued well. I have read a lot that Gliddne's Gripper paint is great as foam glue.
I don't follow the Bondo on the siding. Bondo is rigid?? The panel will be flexing during final assembly. I cant tell that there would be small holes in it. I do have the holes in the front window cover, but that is exterior and a different fiberglass alltogether.
I wont take 6 months,it should be wihtin a week I hope.

Questions answered
 

Dh is dear husband. Heavy Duty liquid nails did not eat the styrofoam or anything else. J&R in Ohio does factory repairs. He told me to use bondo on the interior fiberglass to seal up any holes you can't even see. We have not had any problem with this reapair using liquid bondo. I would advise you to suck it up and do a complete roof tear off. Many other HiLos have suffered holes from dissimilar metals. The owners have had to do a total roof replacement. I would highly recommend Externa bond tape for any roof patching.

It was too cold to glue anything today, so worked on solar.
This box will be how I route wires into the interior.
The top unscrews for access, and is where I will connect the wires together. the gray pipe inserts into a one inch hole in the roof, and the purple is a medicine bottle, with hole for wires to fee in. Hoping no water gets into the box.
I plan to just silicone the box to the roof. The box will be inline with the roof vent covers, so not in direct wind.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...ple-screws.jpg

Caulk advice
 

Please don't use silicone caulk on the roof. It is just wrong for your application. It is impossible to remove with out cussing LOL.Dicor roof sealant is the correct product to seal up anything on the roof.

yea, silicone is a mess to clean up. It does work until then though.
I have some window seal tape stuff I could also use too

There is truly no such thing as "an easy repair to the roof". Galvanic corrosion really can't be cured and a total metal re-roof can get expensive. Check out a re-roof done in rubber! Dicor has a complete kit for just that and a youtube video explains "how to". Only additional cost is the 3/8" plywood and fastners. Lasts for many years.
My two cents...
Tree

Renno continues…

Snowy and cold, so worked inside.
This will hold two batteries. I will mount them under the dinnet seat, and it will mostly be outside the vehicle.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...attery-box.jpg

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...attery-box.jpg
The top 2x4 frame will be inside on the floor, in the compartment under the seat.
The rest will be under the floor, hanging down. I will cut a hole the size of the inside of the box.
You can see the vent gap to the rear.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...attery-box.jpg
Shown without the interior frame. I had to cut the 2x2 steel tubes off for it to fit between the axle and the trailer frame when sliding it into place. They were left over from the other camper anyway.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...attery-box.jpg
The frame.

The steel is from a previous RV. It holds 3 batteries, but using it to hold just 2 now.
2x9s to make it more of a box that is rigid for bumpy roads.
The vent is just a gap to the rear.
I will sandwich insulation foam under a board and screw to the 2x4 interior frame. This will both insulate and make a clean seal.
The steel frame gets held to camper with long threaded rods through the floor and into something that will not rip through the floor, probably steel angle iron as space is too tight for more 2x4s.
You can see the holes the rod will go through [which I had to later reposition/re-drill as two ended up directly over the axle.]

This keeps batteries out of the way, easy to access, close to solar wires and on the side of the camper that does not have a lot of weight yet.

The majority of the charging will be from solar, so no need to put it near the trailer hitch.

I am keeping the stock starting battery for the hydro lift in place and will separate with a big diode

Installed box. I had to turn it sideways from what I wanted. It ended up right over axle with a slim gap, but that made it easy to install.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...attboxover.jpg
Looking down in the seat storage area.
4 threaded rods extend down under the steel box to hold it in.
You can see the black axle outside.
The wood strip going across is just something for the bolts to sit on, giving a little more support to the floor, on the other end I used two pieces of plywood, glued together, to give the bolts and floor more support.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...attboxuner.jpg
Was getting dark, but u can see box.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...attboxwell.jpg
Another view.

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/memb...ttboxcover.jpg
Cover in place, I have it just sitting. It will have the ½ inch insulation under it.

Still need to put the screws down to go into the 2x9s. No real need for this, but will not hurt to do - waiting to install batteries, when its warmer, before screwing the last in.

Everything renno-wise from here out should be cake now…

Maiden voyage.
All the electrical, plumbing and roof repairs I made performed great.

I still need to seal the halves better.
High winds from the boiler side blew exhaust in and made the CO monitor turn off the boiler. Cold Shower.
Im not sure if a window was open, or it came in the gaps, or I had the Super Fan pulling air in. Maybe next time using fan to blow air in the camper will create positive pressure to prevent gasses from finding their way in.