new RISE is a 21st Century Hi-Lo
 

I just saw information on a new trailer called the RISE. It is basically a 21st century Hi-Lo trailer. I am intrigued with the lift system that is hydraulic, but uses no cables.
It is made by TrailManor, I guess they realize the Hi-Lo design is really good! It does have a push button remote control that looks very cool.
I also like the floor plan, one even has a murphy bed.

I would have to see it before making any judgements.

I've been watching this. I was disappointed that it was planned as a 24' and shrank and when I saw the MSRP:eek: and I'm not following so closely now. MSRP is like $32,000+ (I know they usually can go lower but still...) and with new technology, you just never know until they get "out" there. The dealer for our area is over 800 miles away and to most people in my area, the price would be :eek: so I don't expect to see one unless we get a chance to take a road trip.

Brookside, where did you dig up the information on the Rise's MSRP and length? It sounds like TrailManor not only wants first customers to be their lab test rats for this product, but also wants first customers' bank accounts, too. If anyone here gets to do a walk through in one, it would be nice if they would put a review on the Hi-Lo forum. We would be particularly interested in knowing details of the hydraulics technology.

Dee

Rise
 

Dee,
Check out the link below for the MSRP.

RISE Travel Trailers | TrailManor Website

Hope this doesn't get me kicked off the Hi Lo Forum? ha
Had to take a look see and would be curious as to how it goes up?
God Bless
Papa

Thanks for the link, Papa. Looks like Trail Manor is taking orders now so bears closer watching. Without knowing the weight specs, I'd be concerned with the single axle.

I noticed on the options tab that they offer a recirculating toilet. Having never heard of that, I found this You Tube video posted by a dealer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4ZC1oGOBxA

Disclaimer: I am not associated in any way with this dealer!

We have a very good friend who is a salesman at a large RV dealer which sold Hi-Lo's trailers/campers until Hi-Lo bit the dirt. He and his compadres insist the company simply priced themselves out of the market.

My good friend was a HiLo dealer and knew all the Snyder family and many of the employees, including the owners of the two repair companies, Midget RV and Trailer Service, and J&R Repair, that are talked about here. In addition to your comment they got caught with the recession and there were some internal/family company problems that added to their wows. The marketing for HiLo did not change with many customers wanting bigger trailers with slideouts, etc. So there were a number of reasons.

My friend also sold Coleman/Fleetwood folding trailers, and as you probably know it went down the tubes because of a holding company business decision. It wasn't because there was no demand for the trailers. He was left with nothing to sell. The two companies basically ruined his business.

I am guessing here but no cables could be as simple as a hydraulic ram at each lift point. It would be much more reliable perhaps than the cable and pulley setup but the downside may be more cost's involved to manufacture.

Rick

I had a recirculating toilet in my first RV, a 1972 Shasta motorhome. Interestingly enough it also had a small holding tank. The drill was to use it for a couple if days and open the valve to drain it to the holding tank. Then I would recharge with chemical and water an use for a few more days.

The advantage was that I could go more days between dumping than I can go with a regular RV toilet. The disadvantage was the foul smell, think of an older airliner without modern vacuum toilets. As a matter of fact the toilet in my Shasta was made by a company that made airplane recirculating toilets. This is one of the reasons that we got a hi-lo instead of a Trailmanor. Most, if not all, Trailmanors have recirculating toilets.

I would be concerned with the separate hydraulic cylinders all moving at the same rate. If one thing went wrong there could be unequal pressure placed on the top and create a situation.

Just wondering if the person who started this thread is a Trail Manor dealer?

Could be.... Looking at the "RISE", it sure looks like they borrowed a lot from HiLo, but what a weird interior layout!

I'd like to know for sure how the lift system works though. It COULD be a single ram with a rotating shaft that turns ratchet gears or something like that.

The remote up/down is kind of fun, but I hope they include a lockout to prevent accidental "butt lowering" when the trailer is set up for camping.

- Jack

I for one like the fact that there is a new telescopic trailer choice in the market. The original Rise may spawn more trailers of this type from TrailManor, with different lengths and layouts.

Like many new products they will put them out on the market and the new owners will be the guinea pigs that will get stuck with the problems. Let them go for a couple of years before buying. Hilo did a bit of that over the years with the one model year models. No better way to test them.

I had started a thread earlier about the "Rise" and I'm not a dealer but thought it would be interesting to compare the dynamics with that of Hi-Lo. My husband worked with hydraulics for a number of years so I badgered him with questions. Generally, from what I have seen work in the past, the price starts out a little lower in order to get them out there so people see them and with a sort of understanding that some fine tuning might be necessary and then ease the price up. I worked in the office of what is a 5-star manufacturer that sells factory direct and that is how they started out with very good results. Superior customer service was their thing so it went very smoothly.

I am interested in everything "RV"! Have been since I was stationed at Elmendorf AFB in the mid-70's and saw the earlier Winnebagos there. I do love the classics though.:)

Agreed- as far as I'm concerned the more competition in the RV industry, the better! Remember the lack of quality in the US auto industry starting in the 70's and how it vastly improved when the Japanese introduced better quality vehicles?

Rise RV
 

Just wondering if HiLo has a patent on their lift system. How many years before the patent expires ? I'm trying to take good care of my HiLo so I don't have to buy another one any time soon.

In the past patents usually ran 20 years.

32K! Not impressed, but it makes my 2404T look really good! If they used four lift cylinders how would they keep them all lifting at the same rate? Hydraulic fluid is going to take the path of least resistance. Any extra resistance at any corner would result in binding unless a really well made system of rollers track where used?

And what is wrong with pulleys? Not to hard or expensive to replace, at least the under frame ones.

hilltool, in the past, a U.S. Patent provided monopoly protection to the jnventor(s) and their assignees for 17 years from the date of issuance of the patent. Also, at the time of filing of the U.S. patent application and during its prosecution with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, no publication of the application would be made, thereby allowing the inventor to change his mind during prosecution as to whether he wanted the successfully prosecuted application to be published as a U.S. patent or abandon the application for the purpose of his maintaining the invention as a trade secret within his organization. After I retired about 11 years ago, a revolution was occurring in U.S. patent laws to be more consistent with international patent laws because of the United States' greater participation in the global economy. Therefore, at present, monopoly protection is now provided an inventor of 20 years from the date of filing of the U.S. patent application upon successful prosecution of the application with the Patent and Trademark Office. If TrailManor was assigned a patent, I believe it probably was a utility patent, i.e., a use patent for already existing process technology. Everything suggested on this forum thus far sounds like old process technology. Maybe they have found a new way to apply (utility) this old technology to the RV industry.

Dee

Jim, my guess is a single ram driving an axle running lengthwise with worm gears at the end. They turn two crosswise axles that could crank four lift bars at the same rate. My only hangup is the length of the lift bars. The crosswise axles would have to be near the top of the bottom half for this to work. All of this would take some pretty hefty bracing for the bearings.

Regardless of how it's done, I bet our pulley/cable system is simpler.

On a different note - nice post, Dee! Are you a retired attorney?

- Jack

Jack -- No, just in patent administration for a corporate research center for 29 years. We did have two patent attorneys locally on staff to write patent applications. The overflow work was farmed out to various patent law firms. One in-house attorney retired not too many years after I retired and the other attorney died before retirement. Since our retirement, the company has merged with another corporation and moved the research center to Virginia.

Dee

Newsletter
 

I get the feed on FB and the newsletter just came out with an update and it does talk about what the lift system is if anyone is interested: https://trailmanor.com/wordpress/wp-c...newsletter.pdf I was a little surprised at how "spartan" the interior is (especially since it cost 3 times as much as our pop-up). It isn't a Hi-Lo for sure!

Well, my idea for how the lift system works was WAY off. Wonder how they synchronize 4 separate lifts?

Like you, Brookside, I think the interior plan is pathetic. There's really no place to "hang out", unless it's on the bed. Even in our little 17 ft trailer, we can sit two adults and two grandkids on the couch.

It's not a trailer I'd want.

- Jack

There are a number of ways to synchronize cylinders. Often a flow control valve is used that meters the same amount of fluid to all cylinders. Another way is to have a large cylinder attached mechanically to a few smaller cylinders. The ram from the large cylinder pushes the small cylinder rams in unison. The small cylinders act like piston pumps and send fluid to the actuating cylinders. Yet another way is to "daisy chain" cylinders. The first or master cylinder is connected to the pump. This cylinder has fluid on both sides of the piston. The backside of this cylinder is connected to the next cylinder, and so on. As the master extends it forces fluid out the the back and into the next cylinder, and so on.

None of the above are 100% accurate in their synchronization. leaks and wear can get things out of whack. But this can happen with our cable system. There are more sophisticated methods involving electronics but they tend to be expensive. Having said that, the price of electronics and digital circuits has come way down. Maybe TrailManor has found a way to do it inexpensively.

Rather than hydraulics I would prefer electrical actuation. There are a number of linear actuators available today that may do the job well. Many of these have the option to be interconnected for synchronization.

Papa and Brookside, thank you for the links.

Jack, there is nothing wrong with being "way off" here. After all, you and the rest of us are just brainstorming on this topic, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Ok, here goes my brainstorming idea. I did an assignment of ownership search for TrailManor's name. The only technology I found in their name was one U.S. patent, a patent that described their torsion system for manually opening and closing the roof wings of their current camper which they have been manufacturing for a good while. Then, I read again the newsletter Brookside provided in the link. TrailManor uses words like "the patented R-Drive hydraulic system." I also noted the artist rendering of the RISE camper which showed primarily the back side of the camper, not the front with the door at all. This was not a professional photo shoot at all, looks like something out of a drafting file. If TrailManor was really interested in going all out to manufacture this camper, they would have this camper sitting by a lake with people enjoying themselves with a front profile of the camper. Most companies who develop and subsequently issue a patent love to assert their bragging rights. Nowhere in this newsletter does TrailManor state "TrailManor's U.S. Patent . . ." It finally hit me; TrailManor does not own this patent; another company owns it. They probably have an exclusive license (or at present negotiating one) from the development company to practice the technology of the patent. Also, they could be attempting to buy this asset from the owner development company. (Papa and Brookside, I'm no good with links; you guys may have to link this for me.). Google without quotes "GTA Innovation LLC synchronized hydraulic systems." This article appeared in 2013 with a patent pending status stating that production would start in 2014. Don't forget to scroll down near the bottom and push the button for the YouTube video.

Dee

Good thing it has a remote, if it's as slow as it shows in the video, you would get soaked if it was raining. I believe I will stay with the Hi-Lo system. I don't really care for the looks of the new Trailmanor Rise. Even if I was interested in one I wouldn't buy one in the first year. All you need to do is go to is go to their site and read owner horror stories when they came out with the Elkmont hard sided camper

Link for Dee's info: Synchronized Hydraulic Systems - Whats New

I figured it out yesterday that you type your info and then copy/paste for link, to paste you use that blue thing at the top of the page where you are typing with the chain-link. I learned this on another website after several tries and with the moderator's help. I am technologically challenged.:D

You're doing well!

Rich R: Thanks. When we first got a computer years ago, I had to have my 4-year old at the time help me. I'd say "Help Mommie make it stop!" or "Make it go.!"

I am guessing that Trailmanor is probably running behind so that is why they went ahead and used the photos that they had. It is almost the 4th of July and I am sure they had hoped to get the product out earlier in the spring or should have been thinking along those lines. They have been having "teasers" for awhile about it and people were getting anxious so why not throw them a bone?

It is always nice to see new ideas but I have seen a lot of ideas bite the dust. Jayco is getting ready to premiere yet another new unit after a failed attempt at a Euro-style camper they are at it again. When you can get a basic unit and for those that don't know quality from not, they see a $10,000 camper with $99.00 a month payments and then see a $30,000 camper........ Yet another reason that I love the classics!

The GTA system works like the second alternative that I described in my previous post: an actuator pushing 4 small actuators, each of them pumping fluid to the lift actuators.

Raul, X2 -- I think you are right. On that last link that Brookside provided regarding the GTA article, you may go to the top far right of the article and select an applications button. It will show pictures of the military field kitchen which was tested. The hydraulics system would have to be fairly rugged to endure military use. Still, I wonder how difficult the system would be to repair as it ages by the ordinary RV consumer.

Dee

Looks like the new TrailManor Rise debuted recently at the Hershey PA RV Show. A few dedicated and loyal TrailManor owners attended and took pictures. If you wish to do a little spying, Google "TrailManor forum" and there will be a heading for the Rise. Click on heading to see the pics taken at the show. As a woman, I love the color and the look of the glistening gel coat. However, the Gross Vehicle weight (GVW) of around 6140 lbs. seems heavy for a single axle. So, where would all that weight go? You guessed it! Right on the hitch. I would take a "jelly bean jar" guess of at least 900 lbs. before use of a weight distribution hitch. Love all the light inside from all the windows. But storage cabinets up top are sacrificed for the windows. It's opinion time. Does anyone have any?

Dee
Summerville, SC

Dee,

Thanks for the info. The photos answer some of the questions we had. The top raising/lowering mechanism appears to be individual jackscrews at each corner. This should be a very reliable system but it is probably much heavier than the Hi-Lo system. 6117 Lb gross with a 4903 Lb empty is pretty porky for a 19' TT.

Raul, do you know if that 19 feet is the cabin length or the length from the end of the bumper to the tip of the hitch? If it is only cabin length, maybe it's not so bad (if you don't think about the other problems); just trying to be a little objective here. I wonder what the width of the cabin is.

Dee
Summerville, SC

I do like the way the restroom walls flip up to make an actual hard walled room. a little more privacy than the Hi Lo set up. But that was about the only thing I was impressed with other than the lifting mechanism that seems to be a very reliable way of lifting the roof. No cables to stretch, adjust, or break and screw jacks have been around forever so its tried and true technology. They just added a motor to drive them. Pretty good idea.

I don't know for sure but my guess is that it is the overall length. For comparison, my 24' Hi-Lo with a tip out and dual axles weighs about the same as this 19' trailer.

Maybe this answers your question. RISE Travel Trailers | TrailManor Website

Raul and RichR, the 19 feet does look like the cabin length. TraiilManor still has not published the RISE specifications on their website. Even though it debuted at the Hershey PA RV Show, I was mistaken as to where the pictures were taken. They were taken at the time of a visit to the TrailManor Manufacturing Plant. For comparison purposes, add three or four feet to the length of the RISE for the bumper and tongue totaling 22 or 23 feet, and it is approximately the length of the Hi-Lo 23 to 25 feet camper. Still, it is heavy for that length with no tip out, no overhead cabinet space, and no 30-gallon gray and black water tanks and 20-lb. propane tanks as compared to our 30-lb. tanks.

Dee
Summerville, SC