Stumped and Confused
 

I've got myself a headscratcher here. I had to raise the UFO to put some stuff in it and hopefully get to the Keurig, recall on that. I got the main body raised up but can't get the tip out couch to move. I got no motor sounds either way I've tried it..

Am I going to have to get another battery?

BTW, It was in the 30's yesterday if that makes any difference

I didn't have a tip out so I'm not familiar with that but I think if your battery had enough "juice" to power the top up then it should have enough left to at least sound the tip outs motor. I would suspect something else.

Fortunately for test purposes, you can charge the battery or jump it off with another before just replacing it. Did you get the coffee maker?

Interesting, haven't had this problem before on mine. Could it be a blown fuse?

I'm not sure that because I have the solar panel covered if that will make a difference in keeping the battery charged or not. I do have it plugged into shore power.

Can't get to the Keurig or the fuse panel.. the tip out is blocking both of the access panel and the cabinet. Unless I can muscle it up :confused:

Please keep us posted on your findings as there are several of us who have the tip out. I'm terrible with electrical, but I think I would start with the switch and make sure you have power there and the switch is not bad. I don't recall seeing a dedicated fuse for the tip out (could be wrong). Just looked at my 2005 manual and it does not reflect a fuse for the tip out. Fuses listed are:monitor, radio, interior lights, (2) interior lights/hood, furnace, water pump, LP gas detector and automatic water heater. All fuses are 15 amp except the monitor, which is 5 amp.:confused:

Mystery solved. I found that after it warmed up a bit here the motor for the tip out does work.. It doesn't like the cold. Can't complain too much I don't like the cold either. :eek:

DH didn't want me to try to muscle the tip out up.

Now to go to the Keurig site and see which one of their single serve makers got recalled.

Pinn, cold weather is not the cause of that problem!! You just lucked out when you tried to up the tip out later. What I think you have is an intermittent wiring problem. Don't take that tip out down until you find where it is. We had a similar problem on our 2009 25-foot Classic. Both the upper half of the camper and the tip out would not operate at an overnighter on the way to Florida. We knew it was not the battery because we had just replaced the battery with a new one. Therefore, DH operated the manual override to get the upper half to raise. If you don't hear any "juice" getting to the motor in the tip out at all, it is probably a switch or wiring malfunction on its way to going bad. Since we purchased our camper new from the factory, it was unexpected to find a wiring problem (bad and cheap spades used in the wiring of the switches) so soon and with little age on the camper. DH, who is an expert in electrical, found the problem right away and fixed it. Have someone look at the wiring to the switch and the wiring to the motor behind the panel. Your camper is too new for the motor to be going bad.

Dee
Hi-Lo 2509 Classic

P.S. Pinn, thanks for the heads up on the Keurig; we will have to check for a recall on ours too. We DO LOVE our Keurig!

Dee

tip out
 

I can't speak about tip out motors because our 03 classic has a manual tip out. However, if the roof is not lifted high enough you will not be able to lift the tip out to the "set up" position.

I would guess even an electric motor would not move the tip out if that were the case.

Also, out of adjustment cables may not lift the roof high enough.

allenr
03 29ft. classic

How did I 'know" it was too good to be true that it would be a simple fix?? :(

We have a planned trip coming up in 3 weeks ~ and I don't want to get down there and find out that we can't get the tip out open.. DH wants to wait on the repair. I kinda have the feeling that it won't wait.

Gonna call/email my repair guy and see when he can fit us into his schedule.

Pinn, well, it is a simple fix for those who have basic knowledge of electrical technology. Make sure your repair guy has that basic knowledge. The most I know about electrical is "flashlight." I'm thankful for my DH's electrical knowledge. We have others on this forum who I have met personally and who have a great deal of knowledge in this area, Papa and JimL. They are great trouble shooters (and creative) regarding these campers and their "hidden" malfunctions.

Dee

Pinn,

The tip-out motor has a dedicated, double circuit breaker (50 Amps total) in the battery compartment. My guess is that one of these breakers tripped when you tried to use the tip-out and the temperature was too low. The type of breaker used resets automatically. This may be why it worked OK later.

If you look at this thread, close to the bottom of the page, you will see a photo that I took of the breakers: https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/f28/...82/index2.html. They are the two connected by a copper bar directly to the positive terminal of the battery, with the red wire coming from them. These breakers are not that expensive, you may want to replace them. If so, I recommend a single 50 Amp breaker, rather than the current setup of two 25 Amp breakers in parallel.

Incidentally, the cold may be affecting the breakers or the winch itself. The grease on the winch may have become solid with the cold. This may have put too much resistance on the motor and caused a breaker to trip. There's a way to see if the breakers are the cause. Try to raise the tip-out in very cold weather and see if it works. If it doesn't work, let the trailer sit for a while. Then, use a hair drier to warm up the circuit breakers thoroughly. If it works, it may be that one or both of the breakers are bad.

Good luck!

Oh my....a few things to check

Raul, how cold does it have to be to affect the breakers and the winch? It looks like she lives in eastern North Carolina and I live in eastern South Carolina, both at low altitude and below the Mason-Dixson line. We've had a low recently of 20 degrees F. at 2 or 3 in the morning for a very short period of time, and such an event is unusual.

Dee

Raul is on the right track for a place to start. Loose wires, corroded conections and bad grounds caused by the above are common problems. Also there is the switch to lift the tipout in and out. There is one or two limit switches up at the motor winch to stop the motor at the mid point that is operated by a cam. If it is not the circuit breakers I would start at the motor to check for power when you press the lift switch. The motor has a ground wire, a wire for clockwise rotation and one for counter clockwise rotation. Check the ground wire for a good ground and then press the lift switch to lift and see if you have 12V on one of the hot wires at the motor. If you have the voltage at the motor then most likely a bad motor if the ground is good. These motors do not usually go bad on this new of a trailer. If no voltage then go back to the lift switch and check for 12V going into the switch and out on the lift and lower side of the switch. If you have the voltage into and out of the switch then its in a connection between the switch and motor. The limit switch operated by the cam, if bad can stop any voltage getting to the motor. I am on a trip so no drawings on the trailer electrical to look at. Hope this helps. If you need more help let me know and will do so on the phone.

Sounds like my repair guy is going to be earning his money checking the possible causes and fixing whatever is wrong.

Tip Out?
 

What is that? A slide out?-Thanks-J

It is like a slide out, but does not slide, instead tips out. The tip out is a sofa which can be made into a bed. The tip out does not have the same head room as a slide out, but has plenty of head room for a sofa.:)

The tip out pivots at the bottom. When it is retracted the front of the couch is horizontal and almost laying on the floor of the trailer. The tip out has a strap attached to its top that is connected to an electric winch in an overhead cabinet. To extend it one actuates a switch. The winch pivots the tip out until it almost is balanced on center. Then the tip-out has to be manually lifted/pushed a bit until it goes over-center. After this, the winch is used again to slowly pivot it into position.

Here are some photos.

Dee,

That's hard to tell. Often electrical and mechanical equipment adversely affected by cold are slightly out of spec, or all the way at one end of the design tolerances to begin with. The cold simply pushes them over the edge.

Mechanical devices often use grease or oils that may thicken or harden with the cold and this could also cause a failure. In this case one can often substitute the lubricant for one with a slightly lower viscosity or a synthetic one. Synthetic lubricants tend to be less affected by temperature changes.

Also, keep in mind that cold batteries will have less capacity than warmer ones. This, combined with a motor that has thickened grease may result in a tripped circuit breaker. https://www.pacificpowerbatteries.co...AQ/dcfaq4.html

In this specific case it could be a number of things and they may not be temperature related.

Tip Out problems?
 

Pinn I would think you could wait until warmer weather to see if you actually have a problem. Our HiLo is grumpy when raised in cold weather. It is perfect in warm weather.

I do know it didn't want to raise up at all in the cold. Going to a Rally and Dutch Oven Gathering in a couple of weeks. I am hoping there are no issues at that time.

Just an FYI, Powerwinch has an active recall for their 2007 models. You can google the info and call Powerwinch directly. They can look up recalls by VIN, but their info is more accurate if you have the Serial No. directly off the winch.:)

The recall was for defective winch shafts. Powerwinch no longer has any Hi-Lo VIN data. They need the serial number from the winch. Unfortunately, the serial number is on a paper tag that may be located in various positions on the winch. In some cases, like my Hi-Lo, the tag is in an area where it cannot be read without taking the winch out.

As a result, I chose to ignore the recall. I just make sure that I stand clear of the tip-out when it is going up or down.

DH made me wave off the repair guy since we were able to raise the tip out last time, now it has happened again today when we tried to raise the tip out, No power. There is also not a circuit breaker coming off the battery for the switch.. Time to freak out now.. We are leaving Friday to go camping.
49 degrees here so it now too cold. Could it be possible for the battery to need to be replaced?

Tipout problem
 

I have a 2004 28 ft with a tipout and had an electrical problem where the red ( hot ) wire with the black ground went around the frame on its way to the battery box and had rubbed as it went around the sharp edge of the frame, was corroded so I drilled a hole through the frame and fixed the bad corroded spot and and wrapped the wiring all the way to the battery box, upon further investigation I found several questional practices under my camper where this kinda damage could occur on other circuits, I love my camper but not real impressed with the haphazard way they did some of the location on the wireing.

I too have found wiring that was questionable. When we had our 1999 21T we were on our return trip from Alaska/Canada and discovered wiring on the underside of the trailer that had been enclosed in a plastic tubing was no longer enclosed. The tubing had been destroyed by the Alcan highway rocks.:(

Update: Battery tested out fine. took it to a local auto parts store. After a phone consult with a great person. I went to the bundle of wires in the bathroom and cut the tape loose and tightened all of the wire nuts. :eek: Taped it all up individually and then all in a bundle again. Took the cover off to the tip out winch compartment and tightened all those wire nuts. I then tried for several hours to duplicate the no power scenario again, power to tip out every time.
There is no circuit breakers in the battery compartment. I have pictorial proof I can add later.

I'm hoping this solved the problem.

I think your wire nut therapy was the key. Good move! I hate those things.

- Jack

A future project should be to eliminate the wire nuts and use proper crimp-on splices. Wire nuts do not like vibration and can slowly work their way apart. This is why they are not used on cars, boats, etc.

Some people solder connections, but this is also not a good practice. Soldering stiffens the wire ends allowing vibration to fatigue the ends and beak the wires.

I was taught that when using wire nuts, always tape the wire nut to the wires going into it. That way the wire nut cannot come loose. Just a thought.......

Bob

That will help, but wire nuts are still not the optimal thing to use for circuits subject to vibration (like a trailer traveling down the road).

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/atta...0ea36b0744.jpg

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/atta...894e683092.jpg

This was the before picture
https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/atta...907508d1d9.jpg

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/atta...d375aa6633.jpg

Pinn,

A few observations:

1- For some reason you are missing the circuit breaker for the tip-out winch. This can be unsafe. If ever a wire shorts out it can overheat and start a fire. You should get a 50 Amp breaker and connect it between the battery + and the wire that goes to the tip-out motor switch.

Here are some examples. The first one has a buss bar that connects directly to the battery post. You can then connect the tip-out wire to the open terminal in the breaker. Note that these breakers are self-resetting:

Amazon.com: Rig Rite 12 - Volt Auto Reset Circuit Breaker: Automotive

https://www.amazon.com/Bussmann-BP-CB...2+volt+breaker

2- All those wires in the bathroom are normally inside a protective sleeve. You may want to get something to protect them.

3- As I stated before, consider replacing the wire nuts with high quality crimp connectors.

4- Add some strain relief to the wire bundle before and after the wire nuts. Every time the top goes up and down it tugs a bit on the wires and this can cause connections to come loose. A good way to do it is to use a strap or a length of very flexible hose with a slit in it. Use tie-wraps to attach this to the wires before and after the wire nuts. Once done, if you gently pull on the wire bundle at the bottom and at the top the force will go through the strain relief and not through the wire nuts. You can also relieve the strain by wrapping electrical tape above the wire nuts and continuing to below the wire nuts. Electrical tape can be messy if you ever need to remove it.

5- The tip-out winch gears deed some grease, If the grease that is already on it is still soft, spread it over the gear teeth. Also, spread some on the large gear while being careful not to get it on the strap. I also recommend that you spray a bit of lube on the shafts where they turn in the housing. This will prevent wear and squeaks.

Good luck.

Raul,

Where should the circuit breaker be located in the Towlites- the battery box?

Thanks,

The breaker is for the tip-out winch and it is in the battery box. It is connected directly to the battery. Look at this thread and the photo that I posted:

https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/f28/...82/index2.html

This is way DH and I purchased it. We have made no major mods to it in any way. Except clean it really well.

After speaking with JimL, really nice guy BTW, by phone he informed me that I really need those circuit breakers, which will be installed by an electrician.

The wires in the bathroom were covered by a cloth sleeve, Good or bad? :confused:
I moved it up to be able to see what was going on.

I wasn't sure about the grease on the gears on the winch motor.. :eek:

The wire nuts will be replaced by an electrician .;)

Strain Relief?? I'm not sure what you are talking about.

Thanks for any and all help.

OK, I went in and grabbed your photo and attached here. Can you point out the breaker? Can you tell I am an electrical dummy? :confused:

"The wires in the bathroom were covered by a cloth sleeve, Good or bad? :confused:"

That's good; it is what came from the factory. I did not know that you removed the sleeve for the photo.

"Strain Relief?? I'm not sure what you are talking about."

As the top goes up and down it pulls and relaxes the wire bundle. The way the tape is wrapped right now it does not really provide much protection to the splices (wire nuts) from the pull. This pulling flexes the splices a bit every time and this can eventually lead to bad connections. A strain relief is simply something that will transfer the load of the pull to an area below the splices. As I mentioned, it can be done a number of ways. The simplest is to wrap more electrical tape on the wire bundle starting above the splices, moving down to include the slices, and finishing the wrap a few inches below the splices. Using tape is a cheap and easy way of doing this. While perfectly adequate, I personally don't like it because I may need to cut or unwind it if I ever need to troubleshoot the splices. Then again I'm an engineer; so I'm a bit retentive. :)

Look at the attached photo. The breaker is the two rectangular objects attached to the positive post of the left battery, with a red wire coming out. The red wire is the power wire for the tip-out winch. I circled it.

The way it was done at the factory is not a good practice. They used two 25 amp circuit breakers connected in parallel to make 50 amps. This can lead to the whole setup tripping at a lower current than 50 amps. It is a much better practice to replace the two breakers with a single 50 amp one. I recently did this on my trailer.