Battery Use
 

I have recently became a new owner of a 1999 Classic HiLo model 29B. I had been researching different popups for awhile and finally made the plunge on the HiLo and think that I will be more than happy I did in the future.

Anyways, my question is about the Battery use. I have the roof mounted solar panel, that I believe came standard with the trailer, and if I understand it correctly that is merely for keeping a trickle charge on the battery during storage periods, correct?

Second part of question, is the Battery only used for raising and lowering the HiLo or should it also provide enough power to operate other components inside the trailer? Like would I be able to use lights or the water pump etc... if I was dry camping?

Thanks in advance for any responses.

Yes, the battery will run the lights and water pump too. Possibly, it might last two days if you minimize electrical usage. But, you'll find you'll need a generator to keep the battery charged if dry camping for longer than that.

- Jack

Wow, that is probably the quickest response I have ever gotten from a forum! Thanks Jack.

The reason I was asking is that it seems that my Battery may not be holding a deep enough charge to operate anything. Unless I am missing something, like another power switch? I am able to operate the lift up and down and the tongue jack up and down, but I am not able to operate anything else in the trailer, like lights etc...

Pappa,

Since this Hi-Lo is new to you and you haven't experienced its performance history, I really suggest you take it to competent auto or trailer electrical specialist and have them check the solar trickle charger, its regulator, and also the battery(ies). Even if all is well, at least you'll have a baseline evaluation with which to judge future performance.

I bought a second hand Hi-Lo and after one use was suspicious of the condition of the battery. Had it checked and found out that the solar panel had failed and that the battery had a bad plate.

You wrote "battery," so I'm assuming your Hi-Lo came with only one. When I replaced my bad battery I went ahead and bought two. My battery box had the space and I wanted the "longer legs," an extra battery would provide. Haven't regretted to extra expense for a second.

Finally, if you plan to do a bunch of dry camping, check out the HTF library... a number of good threads have been written and posted that give great ideas for how to conserve battery power.

Congrats on your new purchase and welcome to the HTF!
Jim

There is a three-way switch adjacent to the lift switch. The positions are: camping - towing - lifting/lowering. Sorry, but without looking at my actual switch, I can't remember which position is which. Yes, when the switch is in the lift position, it does cut-out other non-critical loads. In the "camping" position its supposed to cut out the lift system. "Tow" position is only supposed to power the reefer. I have noticed that ours isn't quite that perfect.

Since my switch acts a bit funky, I recommend you seek out the written facts in the HTF library, in one of the Owner's Manuals that have been saved there.

Jim

The 3-way switch should be in the up position to operate the lights and water pump, middle position for towing, and down position for raising and lowering.

Bob

If you get a new battery make sure to get a deep cycle battery for best performance and battery life.

This 2001 manual should cover your 1999. It may answer some questions. https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/f49/...2001-hi-lo-23/

Check voltage with volt meter on the output leads of the solar panel. Most likely its a low wattage for battery maintance. If you look at buying new batteries, get 2 6volt deep cycle batteries wired in series to get 12volts. You will get a longer run time or amp hours.

If you go with the two 6 VDC batteries in series, be sure to measure the depth of your battery box to make sure they will fit.

Jim

PappaP

Check with the guys at J&R Repair about your solar panel working. We also had a problem with ours last year for the first time since new and can't remember what they called it but whatever it is it's located on the outside of the camper behind the fridge grate. Take the fridge grate off and this thing is mounted on a piece of wood. Hubby isn't here so can't ask him what it was called anyway we replaced it and the solar panel now works again. I'll find out what this is called and post when I talk to hubby.

Deb

Thanks to everyone of you for your responses, it is greatly appreciated. Yesterday after my initial post I had done a little more research, I think it was in the 2001 Hilo manual in the reference library where I had seen the explanation of the power switch being in the up position to allow power during camp mode, that was not really explained when I purchased the trailer from its previous owner, he had only explained having it in the down position for raising and lowering and then put it in middle to eliminate draining the battery power.

Anyways, many of you confirmed this being the possible issue and thanks for the quick responses. I will be bringing the trailer to the house today from out of storage and check it out further.

And I have already been reading up about upgrading to a two battery system in the future for longer dry camping periods.

Thanks again to you all,
PappaP

I put an additional battery in my trailer for that very reason too, since we mostly "dry camp".

- Jack

To follow up, the issue was the power switch not being in the "up" position to work on DC for camp mode.

But, I had left the frig on DC mode with the frig fan on overnight, the only other item running was the Fantastic fan above the queen bed, and this morning came out to a dead battery.:(
Most likely if I was dry camping the frig would probably be running on propane though.

On my 1999 model 29B, the battery and hydraulic pump is located in a storage box just to the left of the entry door. It does not look like there is adequate space to add another battery in that compartment. Unless someone out there has experience with adding or modifying this battery storage someway? I would like to hear your ideas.

Thanks again,

PappaP,

Can you post some pictures of the battery box location and the front and back of your trailer?

Oh yeah, look around in these forums, because lost of posts, about how you can cause your tow vehicle's battery to be dead, if you leave fridge on and hooked to car that is NOT running and charging the battery(s).

You might understand why, the fridge uses a high watt heating element that heats a "tank" area of an amonia based solevent that cools the icebox/fridge on camper type fridges... but that is the neat part with these 3 way fridges, propane will do the heating very cheapley, when boondocking, and DC is to keep it cooling while traveling, AC the nights before you leave & some campgrounds that you know have AC as part of the camping spot..

THe fridge keeps cold, using propane pretty cheaply, at least when new/working correctly. ALso you SHOULD ALWAYS have the trailer parked pretty "level" when fridge is being "run" which is technically "buring" especially if on propane --> and is a hazard at gas Stations.

IT is better to be as close to level, it has to do with blocking the path that the circulation of the amonia, and causeing HUGE problems. When a trailer is moving down the road, it bounces enough to keep fluids moving like they should, at least, if not they'd have to make it so you cant do it, right?

We almost always dry camp and have a single 12V deep cycle battery in our 22 ft '95 towlite. We use battery lanterns if we sit in the trailer longer than a half hour in the evenings and if we aren't running the furnace we can go for 7 days on it. I now carry a second fully charged deepcycle battery in the truck with us. If we drain the first one I swap it out. The second battery is also my spare in my boat.

We found some LED under counter lights in an outlet mall store. They cost us about $7 each, each fixture has five LED bulbs in each of three of gimbaled lights. They were an easy install under the hanging cabinets and I hung them close to the existing cabin lights. They take six AAA batteries each.

When dry camping, instead of the installed cabin lights, we use the AAA battery run LED lights. I estimate we conserve over a 1/2 day's charge on our trailer batteries. One set of batteries lasted almost the entire camping season. In September I finally had to replace the batteries in two of the fixtures... they never did go dark, just too dim for reading.

In terms of dry camping and conserving battery power, I like the idea of installing LED bulbs in the existing cabin light fixtures. What I don't like (yet) is the cost of quality reliable 1156 size LED bulbs!

So check your local outlet mall!

Jim

I agree with Jim on the LEDs. I ordered several from DealExtreme and when they got here I had clicked the wrong size. What an idiot. Luckily I sold them on Craigslist for a net loss of just $7.

One other thing I found out was that once the battery is dead it will cause your brake controller to come up with a "no trailer connected" condition. I had thought that maybe I had blown a fuse but after checking all the fuses were good. I started to go into trouble shooting mode, checked the voltages out of the TV connection and they were good, so I was thinking maybe some wires lost connection on the trailer. I was running short on time and decided to take the trailer back to storage and after a few miles driving my brake controller started to show up as if the trailer was connected again. Then it dawned on me that "doh" I had ran the battery dead the night before.:D

Lesson learned, don't run the battery dead.

Just following up on my battery issue. I was still wondering if my battery is indeed good or going dead. So I took it into Interstate Batteries and had them check it out, (it is a Deep Cycle Interstate Battery). The battery was showing only 11.26V when I checked it before taking it to them. This was due to the Master switch being left on when I took the trailer into camping world to have the hub bearings repacked the previous week, partly my fault because I didn't double check it before dropping the trailer back at storage site.

Anways, Interstate had to keep the battery overnight to charge it and said the next day it was not holding a charge. I explained to them I had to wait a few weeks before I could work the battery in the budget and then I was told that the battery was not at the level of voltage to necessarily make it bad but it had been charging over night and was not at the level to indicate it was good? If that makes sense? So when I got home I checked it before installing back in trailer and had 12.26V and also when I checked my battery panel inside it stated that it was at full charge, which I have not ever seen read that level on the battery panel. So, I left the trailer connected overnight to AC power and was going to check out fridge and a few other things the next day. The following day I measured the battery and it read 12.9V and the battery panel showed it was just under half charge.

So the question is, is there a reliable way to test out the battery to determine if it is holding the proper charge. The trailer has a solar panel as well, but not real sure if this is operational as well. Just wondering if part of the battery issue was due to leaving the master switch on and giving a false indication, as well as the possiblity of Interstate battery just wanting me to purchase a new battery when its not really needed?

Sorry kind of long winded thread reply but trying to make it understandable to someone reading the post. I attached a few pictures showing where the battery is located and there is not really room to add a second battery as desired.

I don't understand why it was reading 12.6 and the inside panel said fully charged and then it read 12.9 and said it was half charged on the panel. Did you mean , maybe, 12.09? Any chance the charger/converter was still plugged in when you read it the first time?

At any rate- the only reliable way to check battery levels is with a hydrometer in each cell which, with interstates I believe, you can do because they are not sealed.

Also- once you charge it over night it should rest a while ( 3 hours to over night depending on who you talk to...) to get an accurate voltage reading.

Rick

If you checked the battery immediately after removing it from charge you can get a high voltage reading. Leave it sit for few hours or overnight to allow it to level out then check the voltage. Make sure it is not connected to anything for this. Also, you can check the specific gravity of the acid to see if is up to spec and if all the cells read close to each other. Beyond that, having a load test done like what Interstate would tells allot about the state of a battery.

Did you charge the battery with the trailer's converter/charger or with an external charger? Some of the converter/chargers aren't the best for the batteries.

Here is some good reading about batteries, probably more than you want to know but it is very informative.

Deep Cycle Battery FAQ

The 12volt Side of Life (Part 1)

Rick beat me to some of what I said, but at least we are both on the same track.

Went back and looked at your pictures and, sure enough, it does not look like you have room in the battery compartment for another battery. I am a new hi-lo guy myself, but mine (2001) has the battery box and hydraulic cylinder located in a box behind the propane tanks. Be interesting if you could find a "second hand" box from a later model and mount it there and then run cables under the trailer and into the box where your battery is---and then you would have a two battery set-up like many the rest of us.

I've been struggling with battery issues myself and doing a bit of reading----so the info I gave in the last post was the result of all that. Good luck

Rick

I was always under the impression that the only true way to test a battery was with a load tester... Just testing it with a V/O meter / panel just means it is charged, doesn't mean it will actually "hold" a charge...

Try taking it to pepboys, autozone, orielly's... and see what they say... They all will do it free of charge. It may also be the reason that interstate says "bad" and your V/O meter / panel says it's good... The testers at the stores puts a load on it to see if it will "hold" a charge...

Welcome to the forum.
 

PapaP,Welcome to the forum. Looks like a nice unit in the pictures you posted. The forum members are really good with answering questions.So ask away.

I have been reading this and other forums about converting to 2 x 6v batteries and all it really did is bring up more questions...

Like;

1) When people changed their battery to a deep cycle did they buy it off the shelf at (insert store name here)... because that is just a glorified car battery...

2) Interstate batteries are a very good battery - but most "deep cycle" are just glorified car batteries... even Interstates.

3) Did you even consider a good "real" 12v deep cycle battery? Like Deka, Fullriver or others?

I really think a "real" deep cycle battery, not a store bought one, would have made a ton of difference... Battery technology changes almost year to year, so the batteries you buy today are not going to be the same battery you buy 5 years from now or 5 years ago.

I have a concern with the 2 x 6v batteries - like you are out in the boonies and 1 fails... you are stuck. I know, how often to they fail? But lets say 1 does... You are up the proverbial stream...

If you are planning on buying a "deep cycle" battery... please DO NOT buy one from a retail store... they are not what you want.

BTW - most golf carts that are coming out now are using 12v batteries instead of 6v... Just FYI

I am puzzled by what you say about "off the shelf" deep cycle batteries are glorified car batteries. If so, there is allot of fraud going on out there. I can't believe that. I can believe that there are different levels of quality in batteries. If I am shopping for a deep cycle battery I would buy one that is well known and sold everywhere because of warranty issues. If I buy an Interstate battery in PA and have a problem in FL I can find a dealer quite easily for a replacement. I have had Interstate deep cycle batteries for many years and have never had a problem with them. IMO

Davidc, etal,

Our unit came with a Wal-Mart Deep cycle and I have seen these fail so often that I bought a 2nd one at Costco and installed battery isolators on them. The Costco battery [can't remember the brand] had a 100 month warranty and cost much more than the Wal-Mart battery but I think will be more reliable. I bought a high-dollar sealed deep cycle battery for a previous 5th wheel and was very disappointed in its performance. It would not hold a charge so they replaced it and the replacement battery wasn't any better. I would charge it with a battery charger and it still did not produce the capacity they promised. The newer 5th wheels have so much electronics on them they were definitely built for a 50 amp service in an RV park and not boon docking. I always installed battery isolators so that I wouldn't be without battery power in an emergency.

If I were to go dry-docking I would take along our emergency generator, especially for an extended stay.

Jerry Curtis
2406 T

Battery
 

PappaP,
We have geared up our Hi Lo to dry camp (for those times the wife will let me camp without her having electricity).
Our used camper came with a solar pannel that stopped working but I didn't repair it. Most dry camping we do is in the shade and I don't think I could detect much advantage to the solar pannel anyway. But some may say it's works well, I just didn't ever see any advantage of it.
We did add a second battery as the battery box in our Hi Lo was big enough to let me put one in there. I bought two Wal Mart batteries that were the same size that was in the camper and would fit in the box. So we run on two batteries all the time. Went with Walmart figuring I can all ways find a Walmart should I need one. Bought them in 2007 and they still seem to be working fine.
In our camper we have cigarette receptable where the TV can hook in to run on DC (least I assume that's what it's for). I bought a plug that fit that type receptable and has two wires coming from it. While camping I can check the battery level by connecting a Volt meter to those wires. That keeps me posted on battery strength while camping.
I don't own a small generator so when my batteries get low I connect the seven pin plug up to my truck and let it run a while to boost the batteries. Works for me. I guess some would say that's too expensive but we don't do enough dry camping to justify a generator.
I have also bought LED bulbs that will fit the light fixtures in the camper. They can be expensive so I have them spread around the camper where most needed. One in the bed room, one in the bathroom, one over the kitchen sink/stove. Some light fixtures use two regular bulbs. So when we dry camp I remove one of them.......to save from it coming on.
Like someone has posted there are many ways you will learn to conserve. Some have already given you some good advice. I do find that any use of the battery drains it very quickly. So best advice is to monitor and conserve battery use.
Hope this helps and welcome to the forum.
God Bless
Papa

The 2 articles you provide links to both say that "Deep Cycle Marine" are most likely just a Hybrid battery;

Quoted from the first link -"Marine batteries are usually a "hybrid", and fall between the starting and deep-cycle batteries" = "Glorified Car Battery".

So when you go and buy a "Deep Cycle/Marine" battery off the shelf, you are for lack of better terms and without cutting the thing apart, buying a "Glorified" car battery...

You either want a "Deep Cycle" or a "Starting" battery, but you really are NOT looking for one that does both...

The Devil is in the terminology; (Quotes from the first article)

Starting - (sometimes called SLI, for starting, lighting, ignition) batteries are commonly used to start and run engines.

Deep Cycle - batteries are designed to be discharged down as much as 80% time after time, and have much thicker plates.

Marine - batteries are usually a "hybrid", and fall between the starting and deep-cycle batteries, though a few (Rolls-Surrette($1,190.29 AND WEIGHS IN AT 272LBS and won't fit in the battery box) and Concorde ($253 for their "group 24"), for example) are true deep cycle.

So when you Combine "Deep Cycle" and "Marine", like is the case with a lot of "off-the-shelf" batteries I have seen in stores, you are most likely just getting some kind of Hybrid.

This also goes to "you get what you pay for" - I can buy a "off-the-shelf" deep cycle/marine battery for about $100, a true deep cycle (Deka for example) is going to cost me a little over $200... but the Deka is a "true" deep cycle battery... When they combined the words "Deep Cycle" and "Marine" what they should have done was slap a label on it that said "Glorified Car Battery" and it would havve been a lot closer to the truth.

I have been looking into solar panels for some time, I was planning on building a "off-grid" house for about 5 years now and have read many articles on panels, batteries and controllers. One thing pretty much rings true from what I have seen; If a battery has a CCA = (Cold Cranking Amps) rating on the label, it's some kind of car battery... The term "CCA" is not used in a solar apllication...

And RichR I am not trying to beat up on Interstate batteries, both my vehicles have them in it and the last 2 that I have sold had Interstate batteries in them, the last truck I owned had a 6 year old Interstate battery when I bought it and I owned it for 5 more years... Yup 11 years on a 72 month battery... just beware of the terminology.

A Deep Cycle/Marine battery is a "Marine" battery designed to be "Deep Cycled" just not to the extent of a true Deep Cycle battery.

That is a good report and food for thought for all of us.

In other words, you had better be careful when you are looking for a battery. Not all labels are created equal. And you get what you pay for, or do you?

Yeah I was a little baffled about the voltage and dummy panel reading's as well. Probably the dummy panel is not accurate.

I had seen your links in another posting before and read through the first part which was quite overwhelming but it did make some good points. It looks like I am going to have to do another test, like charging the battery up overnight with my shore power AC line connnected and then disconnect the battery and let it sit for a few hours and then test. Also I had thought of the hydrometer method before just hadn't got to that point yet. I did buy a cheap battery charger/float tender from harbor freight. But I am not sure this is really that reliable after reading some of the reviews on the tool. Here's a link for it

Automatic Battery Charger - 12V

I had a coupon as well so only paid $6 for it, I thought it might be useful for the winter months to remove the battery after it is fully charged and keep it charged in the garage at home.

I have to agree with Davidc on the interstate batteries. I have gotten much more use and performance from them than just about any other. I just replaced a set that I got a little over three years use from them on our F250 7.3 L Diesel. I have had these for nearly three years and expect to get at least three more.

One good thing about the Wal-Mart batteries, according to my neighbor.. they very seldom ever make it through their warranty period, but he said he just takes them back and they give him credit for that shortcoming off a new battery. He said he eventually will realize a free battery out of it. LOL.

Jerry Curtis
2406 T

And to answer the other couple of replys, I wish I could add the second battery option at the tongue of the trailer as I have seen on some of the other trailers here, but that is where the spare tire is located.

And for now I will probably be going the route of many of the others suggestions of using the least amount of power possible when trying to go drycamping. Like using flashlights and limit the amount of lights used in the trailer at night, etc...

Probably will have to just do a test dry camp, like maybe one or two nights and just see how it goes, I know myself and son will be fine as we were used to tent camping, but the wife likes to have some luxurys, if you know what I mean? :rolleyes: I can't really blame her though as I enjoy them just as much now, and was one of the reasons for getting the HiLo as well :D

Thanks everyone of you for your responses,

PappaP

I recommend a second battery to assure you will have power when you need it. See my post (kengsr) at https://www.hilotrailerforum.com/f17/...06/index2.html for my second battery installation. I also changed all interior light bulbs to LED bulbs I got off ebay for about $4 to $6 each as I recall. This helps a lot on the one week dry camping trips we do at a NH state park.

That's the same float charger I use. I bought four of them, with a coupon, for $4.99 each. I cut the alligator clips off and put terminal lugs on and use the wing nuts on the battery to hold them in place. I haven't had any problems with it yet.

Getting a second battery
 

Pappap, You could put the spare tire in your vehicle. We do this and then you would have room for two batteries on the A frame. We don't dry camp that much so we have only one battery and one solar panel that provides a trickle charge. If you dry camp and your battery is low you can hook up your trailer and run your vehicle for 1/2 hr. It is good to know this emergency measure. If you do a lot of dry camping then later on you might consider a generator.I have fun spending other peoples money lol.

Yeah it is always more fun spending other peoples money!:D

Would definitely like to have the gen option, but that will probably be later down the road, and like you said, in the mean time I could always use my Tv for a generator.

Just to follow up. I did another test a few weeks ago and after charging my battery overnight, I had disconnected it from the HiLo and was going to let it sit for a few hours and then test the voltage, well by the time I got the battery in the garage and checked it with a volt meter to see the starting point it was already reading around 11.5v and within the next 10 mins or so it was completely dead at 10.5v. So needless to say I ended up buying a new battery, and right now I am just pulling it out of the trailer and keeping in my garage, since I haven't figured out if my solar panel is working correctly yet.

Anyways, I had a question for RCREYES, with that float charger do you keep that connected all the time?