2006 25' what's right tow vehicle?
 

I have a HiLo and I'm contemplating either selling or trying on my own. Since I've never towed before wondering what would be best and easiest to operate. I am leaning towards a 4 door truck so could use with odd jobs around house. Any suggestions for this "new bee" to towing?

Hi, and welcome to the forum.

I think you'd have the best towing experience with a Super Duty type of truck. Something like a Ford F250, a GM or Dodge 2500.

The reason I recommend these is due to the tongue weight of the 25' HiLo. A smaller truck WILL have enough pulling power to pull the weight of that trailer, but the tongue weight will just about max out the cargo carrying capacity of a smaller truck. You'll have no extra capacity for passengers, luggage and/or camping equipment. The larger truck will give you much more flexibility when you are towing.

Actually, the Super Duty trucks are not that much larger, but they have a greatly increased cargo carrying capacity due to a much stronger suspension. You also have a choice of diesel engines in them if you so desire, and they are great for towing.

Towing is not difficult, but you DO have to get used to it. One thing to remember - the trailer will always follow you - don't spend all your driving time staring in the rear view mirror to make sure it's still there. The hazards are still mostly in front of you.

- Jack

I agree with Jack. The biggest factor in having an appropriate tow vehicle is, usually, the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). I'm not sure how this trailer came into your possession if you don't tow, but DO be careful when shopping for a truck. Most dealers will tell you whatever it is they have "will be fine", and in some cases they believe that because they really have no idea what is involved. The GVWR of a truck, as Jack alluded to includes the weight of the truck itself plus all people, gas, gear, and the weight of the tongue of the trailer pushing down on the back of the truck- which in the case of a 25 footer could be 800-- to 1000 lbs, is my guess, when the trailer is loaded. Large SUvs in the 2500-3500 designation, as well as heavy duty vans, can also handle this type of load.

Rick

Rick

What type of tow vehicle?
 

You are very wise to ask for help. We have a 25ft. Classic. Our tow vehicle is aF250 97 Heavy Duty 4x4. It pulls the heavier classic with ease. I see people pulling trailers with 1/2 Tons all the time that I think are not adequate for the tongue wt. and all the gear ect. I know trucks are very expensive. You might consider a used truck.

Hi, and welcome to the forum! You may want to take a look at the Trailer Life Towing guides:

Trailer Towing Guides | Trailer Life Magazine

You are for sure going to need a weight distribution hitch. Good luck!

I would disagree a 2500 is necessary for a 5000# trailer. A modern 1500 pickup is more then enough. A modern mid size like a Tacoma or a Canyon would be fine as well. You can always argue a 2500 would be even better but what point do you stop? Why not a 3500, or 5500? Peterbuilt makes a good tow rig. Even towing up to a rating is still perfectly safe, that's why the rating is the rating. If only 60% of the rating was safe then the rating would be that lower number in the first place. You should load your camper and check your weights to make sure. My brother just bought a new F150 3.5 ecoboost crew cab longish bed. That would tow any 25' camper made, let alone a low profile hi-lo. We tow an older 22' towlite with a 2008 Aspen and it's a dream. I don't even have a weight distribution hitch and we load that camper to the max, canned goods, generator, full water tanks, etc. I used to have a 2500 Duramax crew cab with an 8' bed and sure it's great towing, but the 80% of the time you use it normally not towing you are far more dangerous to other on the road with poor handling and long stopping distances not to mention the laws of physics of what would happen if you hit the average car. Sure you are nice and safe but what about the kids in the back seat of that Accord you just climbed the trunk on. See there is an argument to the saftey of others on both sides. You will enjoy day to day life in a 1500 much more and will be just fine towing.

There's a reason why a 150/1500 pickup truck is rated at 1/2 ton. As I said, the engine would be plenty strong enough to pull the trailer's weight, but a 5000# trailer is going to add a minimum of 750# to the payload. My truck weighs 6450# with just me in it. It has a GVWR of 7200#.

So, if I were to try to tow that trailer with my 2014 F150 EB, I'd have to leave the Weight Distributing Hitch behind, since it weighs about 70#, and, I could not put any camping equipment or food in the truck bed. I'd also have to leave Janet behind. But, I have no doubt the truck would pull the trailer without any effort, due to the strength of the engine and the transmission.

My Sister has an F250, and it is really no bigger than my truck. And, it gets even better gas mileage, since it's a diesel. She pulls a 4-horse trailer with a gooseneck hitch using it. I've ridden in it when she's not towing and it feels pretty much like my truck.

I'm sticking with my earlier recommendation.

- Jack

A 1500 pickup hasn't been referred to a 1/2 ton for probably 30 years. A new F150 has at least a 1650 pound payload rating and can be as high as 2300 pounds. Heck, my minvan has a 3/4 ton payload rating now.

If your Ford is really that porky with that low of a GVWR maybe that's why they went aluminum to shed 700 pounds. If so just avoid pre 2015 f150s. Chevy and Dodge don't run their curb weight to gvwr that tight.

OK, I'm honestly not trying to start a fight with you. However, I think the OP needs to consider more than just the so called "weight ratings". My truck is rated to "pull" a trailer weighing 9200#! And, since it has a Base Curb Weight of 5615#, it has a payload capacity of 1520#. It is a 4x4 Super Crew Cab, so it has more weight than the cheepo 4x2 standard cab truck which has a Base Curb Weight of 4935# and a Payload rating of 1920#

Now, Base Curb Weight Rating does not include ANY optional equipment, passengers, etc. My truck has optional things like retractable running boards, bigger wheels, etc. And (full disclosure) I've installed a bed cap that is at least 200#, have a Line-X sprayed in bedliner and I carry a few tools in it. So, when I tell you the weight is 6450#, that's based on what I see on the scales at landfills after I've dropped off the loads I've taken there.

And, unless the truck is equipped with a Heavy Duty Trailer Tow Package (optional), it is limited to a trailer weight of 5000#. I'm pretty sure other truck manufacturers have similar restrictions.

Yes, my truck is probably "porky", but I believe it had "best in class" towing capability for the year it was made.

And, I'm sure the OP could get a 150/1500 class truck that would work. But, he needs to consider more than just the Gross Combined Weight Ratings (GCWR). He needs to KNOW the Vehicle Curb Weight, which includes all optional equipment AND, the tongue weight of the trailer he is towing. Then, he has to respect the GAWR and GVWR of the tow vehicle he is using.

- Jack

I agree with Jack , here, especially with regards to KNOWING THE NUMBERS! I bought a new used truck about two years ago and the criteria, aside from value, was the GVWR and actual "curb weight". I went and had the trucks I was considering buying WEIGHED---and I knew my tongue weight which on MY 2001 22 ft Tow Lite is 700 lbs or better with propane filled. The titan curb weight is a few hundred pounds less than many trucks in that range but, believe me, all of them are in the same range ---Meaning Toyota, Dodge, GM , Ford, and Nissan. You CAN buy a brand new f150 ecoboost with the super tow package and get pretty impressive payload numbers......if you want to spend 40k and northward, which I did not. yes, I am assuming many 1500 range vehicles will handle the tongue weight plus gear on a 25ft hi-lo, but not all will have as much "room" left over. With me and gas and the trailer hooked up I've got around 700 lbs of cargo room left to take care of my wife, dog, maybe a canoe, maybe a generator, maybe ....whatever. Bottom line is knowing the numbers. And, in general, a 2500 range vehicle or 3500 will have much more wiggle room. I DISAGREE, however, that a well maintained 2500 range vehicle poses a greater threat to other people on the road than a 1500. I'd like to see definitive data before i would state otherwise. My good friend camps and pulls a trailer with a 3500 chevy passenger van that he has pulled the seats out of -----and I see nothing inherently dangerous with that vehicle. In fact it handles great. In general, 2500 and up do tend to ride rougher when unloaded. But, they definitely have more capacity, usually. Can you "do it" with a vehicle right at or over the "numbers"? Absolutely. My old 97 f150 drove around for years overloaded with a slide in pop-up camper and, later pulled my hi-lo. The GVWR on that was 6000lbs. With just me in it she came in at 5220 curb weight. Really. Add a 1100 lb slide in camper. My wife and I did a whole summer on Colorado national forest roads in that thing and we came out fine. But I was always nervous. And I was never legal. I am, now, happy. But I'd be real content with a 2500 because I know I could put a cap on it and all the canoes I wanted and move to a big trailer if i wanted. know your numbers, know your numbers, know your numbers.

Rick

There are plenty of road tests out there by professional drivers that show things like stopping distances and emergency handling of all vehicles. Even the best 2500 series trucks are worse thend the very worst 1500 series and way worse then the average car.
The Ford may have claimed the highest tow capacity that year but as you pointed out it doesn't jive well with payload. You could get a 1500 Ram those years with over 3000 pounds of payload capacity. So even towing 10,000 pounds with 1500 pounds of hitch weight and gear and passengers still keeps you in specs.

I bought into the 2500 diesel hype and bought a 2004 GMC Duramax. It was fine but a total waste anytime but towing. So it sat months on end unused except to tow. It was so uncomfortable the ride unless loaded. It also never got anywhere near the fuel economy people bragged about, no where near 20mpg not towing (which the Hemi comes close). I got rid of a 2003 1500 Ram to get it with was great. After dropping the 2500 I went back to a 2008 Chrysler Aspen with is even better day to day then both pickups and still tows like a dream.

OK. To the OP, see what a Ram or GMC (equipped the way you want it actually weighs) and compare that to the GVWR. If you have enough wiggle room, consider one of those vehicles.

- Jack

"A 1500 pickup hasn't been referred to a 1/2 ton for probably 30 years" This coming from a minivan owner.....kind Sir, you are close to having to turn in your man-card. In minivan circles I have no idea how a 1500 might be referred, but in the world of pickups, a 1500 is still a 1/2 ton wherever you go. Yes, I am having a little fun at your expense, but if you go back and read some of your statements you'll see that the long-time,, "in the know" members here are having a hard time unloading on you.

Don't try and turn this into a presidential hand size argument. If you did read my posts you see I used to drive a 2004 GMC crew cab long bed 4x4 with a Duramax. As far as I can tell I'm the only one on this thread with 2500 vs 1500 experience. Minivans are awesome BTW and anybody who gets their identity from the car they drive has much bigger problems in life.

I hesitate to respond. Nobody wants to start a fight. So let me say this- Yes, a "1/2" ton or "1500" size vehicle can likely handle the trailer in question. Actual tongue weight will be a factor as will how much gear you want to haul as will what year the vehicles was manufactured seeing as, as we have all seen, the payload capacity built into most of them have changed over the years. Everyone has now stated their case and the information has been enlightening. Thanks.

Rick

Gonna toss my hat into this mudfest.

YES, a vehicle with a MAX tow capacity of 5000lbs CAN tow a 5000lb trailer...HOWEVER, would you want to be at your max capacity ALL THE TIME when towing?

Would I recommend a vehicle which can do the job at it's maximum limit? No. Hell, I towed a 6000lb trailer across country using a Honda Ridgeline (5000lb max cap, with only 250HP) - so I know from stupid. (That's the ONLY time that truck will see more than about 2500 lbs on a trailer - between the mountains here and lack of engine, it's just not fun).

I'd recommend a tow vehicle that is at between 60-80% capacity when EVERYTHING is loaded. That includes fuel in the vehicle, gear in trailer, people and food in vehicle, etc, etc.

Towing at capacity is seriously not fun, and frankly dangerous, even more so for anyone who is *asking* about towing (i.e. lacking experience).

Just because a vehicle *can* tow a certain capacity doesn't mean I'd *recommend* that vehicle.

What I'd recommend is to find a vehicle that strikes a balance between the capacity required for towing, but isn't unusable when not towing.

How many miles/how many days you plan on towing? Across town twice a year? Get the minimum vehicle necessary. Thousand miles a month from May through Oct? Get a LOT more vehicle - something where it will be at less than 80% capacity when actually towing.

Why am I saying to keep the loading so low? Ease of driving and safety. More capacity you have (vs what you're towing), the better you can respond to less-than-ideal circumstances (traffic, accidents, sudden stops, avoiding stuff in the road, etc).

Hersbird
is your Chrysler Aspen a 4.7 or a 5.7 ?
I tow our 21ft classic Hi-lo with Jeep Grand Cherokee and it has a Dodge 5.2 engine, it has no problem pulling the trailer aside from the fact that suv have shorter wheelbase than trucks so that can be a factor.
I think most newer trucks are built with frames and engines strong enough to pull just about any hi-lo model.
if I had a 2500 diesel truck I will be more into pulling 5th wheel campers.

It's a 5.7 and rated for 8750 pounds with the 3.92 rear and trailer tow package. It has a factory electronic trailer anti sway built in to the stability control but I have never had it kick in before. It will alternate applying individual front brakes when it detects heavy trailer sway. It has plenty of power for the 22 I have, normally stays in overdrive and even will go into 4 cylinder mode sometimes on the level ground if you keep it under 65. That gives 14+mpg. I used to have a 93 Dakota with the 5.2 but never had anything to tow back then. I tried towing a 22' pontoon a short distance with my 95 Grand Cherokee but it only had the 4.0 six and 170,000 tired miles that really strained the motor, it could hardly get out of 2nd gear. The same boat we had to move and launch one time with a 2000 Grand Caravan an it actually towed better then the Jeep, it had the 3.8 and a factory tow package with a load leveling rear suspension. We bought the Duramax so we could haul a big Lance slide in camper and tow the pontoon at the same time. The pontoon motor died and outboards are ridiculously expensive so we sold the whole setup. I have had the Aspen and Tow-lite a little over a year now. The Aspen has actually been loaned out 1/2 of that time to 3 different families at church who have had car problems. I get stuck in my old Subaru Forester because nobody ever knows how to drive a stick LOL! Oh and the Forester is a adequate tow rig for our 3 man boat or our Jetski. Love going on a fishing trip with my son-in-law and getting 30 mpg.

I am very familiar with the 4.0 GC I had a 99 model, it had relatively strong engine, but around 175k they start having transmission problems if they are not maintained well. I am also familiar with the Subaru cars, strange 4 cylinder (like Porsche) but did timing belt/water pump for a friend of ours and couldn't believe how easy it was, but you are right, you can't beat 30 mpg.
I didn't realize the 5.7 Aspen switches to 4 cylinder mode, is there a switch to enable/disable it ?
most of the time if I am towing the camper below 50 mph I turn off the overdrive switch so it revs a little higher but I think its better for the transmission, I don't know if it is true or not, but a lot of mechanics recommend that.

I have to agree with your statements and I have seen similar "rules of thumb" in other forums. That has been one of my guides for quite some time.

Another Consideration
 

Been following this thread with interest. Lots of good info with differing opinions, which always seems to be the case when talking about towing. I have very limited towing experience but would like to point out another consideration which I haven't seen mentioned so far in this thread: Wheelbase.

I don't know if any of you are familiar with the RV Consumer Group which was founded by JD Gallant in the early 1990's? Here is their website:

https://www.rv.org/index.html

The Group puts out an excellent towing guide (membership required to access the pdf download) called How to Tow Safely- A Complete Towing Guide. While weight considerations and other factors are indeed important, JD states in his towing guide that, based on his research, the number one consideration for towing safely should always be wheelbase. You don't hear much about it because the truck manufacturers don't talk about it. If you want to learn more you will need to join the RVCG to download the 79-page guide.

From my limited towing experience, I have to agree with the wheelbase argument. While my Tahoe has more than adequate power (5.7 liter engine), appropriate gearing with factory installed towing package and use of a weight distribution hitch, I still have experienced trailer sway while towing my 24' Towlite. I attribute this to the short wheelbase of the Tahoe.

Just my 2 cents worth . . .

Lucky I agree with your observation, wheelbase is important for towing, anyone who tried to rent a trailer from U-Haul if they had a jeep wrangler 2 door, they try to get you out the door faster than a bullet.
I think that was one of the main reason Jeep introduced the 4 door wrangler, so their owners can have some towing ability without trailer sway.

Besides just wheelbase, the distance from the rear axle to the hitch ball is important in sway. The shorter distance there the better, zero distance being the best as in a 5th wheel. Sometimes the SUVS like my Aspen and your Tahoe don't do as well as the pickups because they have softer suspensions, especially in the rear. I would bet though if a low profile trailer is swaying it's because you need more tounge weight.
Here is a good video showing a promising new product for sway elimination. They load a trailer very wrong, and it's not even that heavy. Even using the biggest, longest truck possible it has massive sway and almost puts them into the wall.
https://youtu.be/cVlXlbU38zA

Interesting video! Thankfully my sway is not that bad! :eek: So to increase the tongue weight, should I just load more stuff in the front of the trailer (under the dinette in my case)? How does the stuff I load in the back of the Tahoe affect tongue weight?

Greg, nothing you load in the Tahoe should effect the tongue weight. But, if you put a lot there, you would need to adjust your Weight Distribution Hitch to transfer weight off the rear axle and re-level your tow vehicle and trailer.

Yes, you can load more stuff into the front of your trailer to increase the tongue weight. Ideally, it should be between 10-15% of the total trailer weight.

- Jack

BUT...what is loaded in that Tahoe affects total weight - so you have to consider your GVWR when loading the back of the vehicle. You wouldn't want to end up going over your GVWR with the combination of trailer/gear.

"BUT...what is loaded in that Tahoe affects total weight"

So just to add a little insight, here. I just got done with my initial loading of the truck for a cross country trip with stuff I typically carry- no food,clothes, ice, soda or beer yet.
Tool box, CAMP bag ( axe, saw, transfer pump, etc), Chock bag( chocks, water hose, jumper cables), screen shelter, Smokey Joe, leveling packs, light folding aluminum table, two aluminum/steel camp chairs, and a Mr Buddy. I've got a not-super-accurate meat scale with 2 lb increments and I hung that up and weighed stuff as I was putting it in Total 187 lbs ! HAH! Granted, the screen shelter is close to 50 lbs and is an indulgence. Still... Not YOU ALL, but I bet a good many have no concept of how much stuff they are carrying when they load up to head out. At this point- after tongue weight, distribution hitch, wife, dog, and all this stuff- I've got 310lbs left ----and when I start tossing in ice and food and other stuff that could get eaten up VERY QUICKLY. IN fact- I'm not even going to cruise by the scales because I bet I'll be a little over. :) Likely wont take bikes, certainly no boat. Just goes to show how little capacity is actually there when we start adding up all those little 10 and 20 lb items. Anybody know what a twelve pack weighs??

Rick

Rick

Absolutely correct! (Good catch, Knotty). If your trailer axle/wheel combination can stand it, you are probably better off putting stuff in the trailer, since most HiLos weigh quite a bit less than the towing capacity of our tow vehicles. But of course you have to respect the GAWR of the trailer too.

I rather suspect many, if not most of the vehicle/trailer combinations we see on the highway are overloaded in one way or another. It's just too easy to do. And, the fact that they function without serious incident is a testament to the engineering of those vehicles and trailers.

- Jack

I carry very little in the trailer seeing as it's GVWR is 4500 lbs and, as we know, my two axles together are rated to carry Less Than That! All the accessories on that trailer DO add up.

I'm not a betting man, but I'd bet with you on this Jack. It's just too darn easy to do (overload stuff), since we don't teach people about it, and don't have an easy (built-in) way to determine vehicle load for consumer vehicles.


LuckyDog - thanks for that link.

HillTool - I'd estimate a 12 pack of beer would weigh about as much as your head (beer is water, with other constituents, so is about 8lbs per gallon). I'd say your head has about as much volume as a 12 pack (144 oz -a little more than 2 gallons), so prob about 16 lbs or so. Wow...never seems like that much when I pick one up! (PS...my math could be all wrong...I'm HORRIBLE at math).

Knotty, when you were responding to hilltool, where talking about picking up a 12 pack or a head?

Ummm...yes?

I mean, we do seem to be in a zombie-apocalypse era with all the movies!

:D

Every automotive magazine on the planet tests things like stopping distances and emergency handling. Seldom do they put a 1500 back to back with a 2500 or 3500 but when they do (Motortrend comes to mind) same brand, same year, the 1500 version stops a good 15-30 feet shorter from the relative slow 60mph (considering many drive 75). So maybe that 15 feet is no big deal, but 7000 pounds moving that extra 15 feet into the back of a small car with a few kids sitting in back is going to ruin everybody's day. I owned a 2500 Duramax and no way does it handle and ride as well as my 1500 Hemi unloaded. All of them are acceptable, but when not towing a 1500 is better, when towing the 2500 will be better but the 1500 is still acceptable. The question is what do you do most? I traded my 2500 for a 1500 and haven't regretted a thing.

That's the phrase of the day there, Hersbird!

To your point about stopping distances, my Ridge stops better than any other vehicle we have - how I drive (following distance) has to be adjusted accordingly. For example, on the motorcycle I have HUGE following distances, because the risk of injury is so mich higher, and road condition affects the bike more than the other vehicles. Our 95 Subaru frankly scares the daylights out of me above 50mph, so lots of distance is called for. The Matrix has good size tires and ABS, so can follow similarly as the Ridge. Whenever I tow anything, large following distance is called for.

Anyway, very good points about what the primary use is, I would add what percentage of time in each mode- towing vs not towing. I just towed a 3000lb camper about 1200 miles (Denver-SD-WY and back) and to be honest that was above the Ridge's capacity in my book. The camper was about 3' taller than thr truck, though not wider. At speed (60-65) the engine was at a steady 80%+ load. Climbing any sort of hill sucked.

For a short haul the Ridge is ok, but any elevation/altitude is going to be difficult.

We averaged 11mpg.

A friend has a new Pilot which he used to tow a camper from Denver to CA and AZ -on I70 over the Rockies. Looking forward to his report since it has about 30hp more than my Ridge.

At this point if we continue camping, a newer Tundra will be our tow vehicle.

I don't think you can go wrong with a new Tundra. Our TV is a 2005 4.7liter Tundra with a factory tow package, which is pulling our 2005 27T. 2014 we went to Moab, then near Telluride, CO, Mesa Verde, Aztec, NM, Pagosa Springs, CO and into to Texas before returning via Las Cruces, NM. Last year we did 8700 miles across Colorado, Nebraska, Iowa, Indiana, Ohio, New York, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia, Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana,Texas, New Mexico and Arizona. This year was a short 5000 mile trip to Alberta, Canada. Our MPG has always been 11-12 mpg. The point is, we have never had any issues pulling the 2005 27T with the Tundra, going across the Continental Divide numerous times.:)

Thanks for that info Garry, really good to hear of real-world experience. I hope we'll be able to pickup a 17T next year, and a new(er) truck to go with it.

FYI- I was a bit confused when posting earlier- thought I was posting on the Ridgeline forum - so I hope I didn't muddy up the thread here when my thinking was about towing with the Ridge rather than towing in general.

My apologies if I confused anyone.

I tow a 24' classic with a 2006 xtra cab 4x4 Tundra with the V8 and one of the biggest problems with a Hi-Lo is the extraordinary high tongue weight. In my opinion a 5000lb camper doesn't need a 750lb tongue weight, especially a Hi-Lo which is no higher than my truck.

Gary-what does the 24' weigh?

I always thought the general guide for tongue weight is about 10% of trailer weight? The 24 doesn't weigh 7500, so that sounds off at first glance


Is it 750 unloaded? If so, could it be designed that way to account for loading water in the fresh tank (is the tank behind the front axle?)? Maybe it's to compensate/allow for user loading?

Just throwing darts at the wall to try to understand the setup - given how these are designed, seems unlikely the tongue weight was an accident.

.

Knotty, the rule for tongue weight is 10-15% of the trailer total weight. The "ideal" is often said to be 12%.

Gary's trailer seems to be set up much like mine was, before I had the axle moved 3" forward. With water in the fresh tank, it actually was more like 17% of the gross weight before the axle relocation.

- Jack

Thanks Jack.

So the water was forward of the axle before moving it, and now more centered/closer to axle?

Makes me wonder what the engineers were thinkin!

Good info and insight on this thread.