Another Consideration
 

Been following this thread with interest. Lots of good info with differing opinions, which always seems to be the case when talking about towing. I have very limited towing experience but would like to point out another consideration which I haven't seen mentioned so far in this thread: Wheelbase.

I don't know if any of you are familiar with the RV Consumer Group which was founded by JD Gallant in the early 1990's? Here is their website:

https://www.rv.org/index.html

The Group puts out an excellent towing guide (membership required to access the pdf download) called How to Tow Safely- A Complete Towing Guide. While weight considerations and other factors are indeed important, JD states in his towing guide that, based on his research, the number one consideration for towing safely should always be wheelbase. You don't hear much about it because the truck manufacturers don't talk about it. If you want to learn more you will need to join the RVCG to download the 79-page guide.

From my limited towing experience, I have to agree with the wheelbase argument. While my Tahoe has more than adequate power (5.7 liter engine), appropriate gearing with factory installed towing package and use of a weight distribution hitch, I still have experienced trailer sway while towing my 24' Towlite. I attribute this to the short wheelbase of the Tahoe.

Just my 2 cents worth . . .

Lucky I agree with your observation, wheelbase is important for towing, anyone who tried to rent a trailer from U-Haul if they had a jeep wrangler 2 door, they try to get you out the door faster than a bullet.
I think that was one of the main reason Jeep introduced the 4 door wrangler, so their owners can have some towing ability without trailer sway.

Besides just wheelbase, the distance from the rear axle to the hitch ball is important in sway. The shorter distance there the better, zero distance being the best as in a 5th wheel. Sometimes the SUVS like my Aspen and your Tahoe don't do as well as the pickups because they have softer suspensions, especially in the rear. I would bet though if a low profile trailer is swaying it's because you need more tounge weight.
Here is a good video showing a promising new product for sway elimination. They load a trailer very wrong, and it's not even that heavy. Even using the biggest, longest truck possible it has massive sway and almost puts them into the wall.
https://youtu.be/cVlXlbU38zA

Interesting video! Thankfully my sway is not that bad! :eek: So to increase the tongue weight, should I just load more stuff in the front of the trailer (under the dinette in my case)? How does the stuff I load in the back of the Tahoe affect tongue weight?

Greg, nothing you load in the Tahoe should effect the tongue weight. But, if you put a lot there, you would need to adjust your Weight Distribution Hitch to transfer weight off the rear axle and re-level your tow vehicle and trailer.

Yes, you can load more stuff into the front of your trailer to increase the tongue weight. Ideally, it should be between 10-15% of the total trailer weight.

- Jack

BUT...what is loaded in that Tahoe affects total weight - so you have to consider your GVWR when loading the back of the vehicle. You wouldn't want to end up going over your GVWR with the combination of trailer/gear.

"BUT...what is loaded in that Tahoe affects total weight"

So just to add a little insight, here. I just got done with my initial loading of the truck for a cross country trip with stuff I typically carry- no food,clothes, ice, soda or beer yet.
Tool box, CAMP bag ( axe, saw, transfer pump, etc), Chock bag( chocks, water hose, jumper cables), screen shelter, Smokey Joe, leveling packs, light folding aluminum table, two aluminum/steel camp chairs, and a Mr Buddy. I've got a not-super-accurate meat scale with 2 lb increments and I hung that up and weighed stuff as I was putting it in Total 187 lbs ! HAH! Granted, the screen shelter is close to 50 lbs and is an indulgence. Still... Not YOU ALL, but I bet a good many have no concept of how much stuff they are carrying when they load up to head out. At this point- after tongue weight, distribution hitch, wife, dog, and all this stuff- I've got 310lbs left ----and when I start tossing in ice and food and other stuff that could get eaten up VERY QUICKLY. IN fact- I'm not even going to cruise by the scales because I bet I'll be a little over. :) Likely wont take bikes, certainly no boat. Just goes to show how little capacity is actually there when we start adding up all those little 10 and 20 lb items. Anybody know what a twelve pack weighs??

Rick

Rick

Absolutely correct! (Good catch, Knotty). If your trailer axle/wheel combination can stand it, you are probably better off putting stuff in the trailer, since most HiLos weigh quite a bit less than the towing capacity of our tow vehicles. But of course you have to respect the GAWR of the trailer too.

I rather suspect many, if not most of the vehicle/trailer combinations we see on the highway are overloaded in one way or another. It's just too easy to do. And, the fact that they function without serious incident is a testament to the engineering of those vehicles and trailers.

- Jack

I carry very little in the trailer seeing as it's GVWR is 4500 lbs and, as we know, my two axles together are rated to carry Less Than That! All the accessories on that trailer DO add up.

I'm not a betting man, but I'd bet with you on this Jack. It's just too darn easy to do (overload stuff), since we don't teach people about it, and don't have an easy (built-in) way to determine vehicle load for consumer vehicles.


LuckyDog - thanks for that link.

HillTool - I'd estimate a 12 pack of beer would weigh about as much as your head (beer is water, with other constituents, so is about 8lbs per gallon). I'd say your head has about as much volume as a 12 pack (144 oz -a little more than 2 gallons), so prob about 16 lbs or so. Wow...never seems like that much when I pick one up! (PS...my math could be all wrong...I'm HORRIBLE at math).

Knotty, when you were responding to hilltool, where talking about picking up a 12 pack or a head?

Ummm...yes?

I mean, we do seem to be in a zombie-apocalypse era with all the movies!

:D

Every automotive magazine on the planet tests things like stopping distances and emergency handling. Seldom do they put a 1500 back to back with a 2500 or 3500 but when they do (Motortrend comes to mind) same brand, same year, the 1500 version stops a good 15-30 feet shorter from the relative slow 60mph (considering many drive 75). So maybe that 15 feet is no big deal, but 7000 pounds moving that extra 15 feet into the back of a small car with a few kids sitting in back is going to ruin everybody's day. I owned a 2500 Duramax and no way does it handle and ride as well as my 1500 Hemi unloaded. All of them are acceptable, but when not towing a 1500 is better, when towing the 2500 will be better but the 1500 is still acceptable. The question is what do you do most? I traded my 2500 for a 1500 and haven't regretted a thing.

That's the phrase of the day there, Hersbird!

To your point about stopping distances, my Ridge stops better than any other vehicle we have - how I drive (following distance) has to be adjusted accordingly. For example, on the motorcycle I have HUGE following distances, because the risk of injury is so mich higher, and road condition affects the bike more than the other vehicles. Our 95 Subaru frankly scares the daylights out of me above 50mph, so lots of distance is called for. The Matrix has good size tires and ABS, so can follow similarly as the Ridge. Whenever I tow anything, large following distance is called for.

Anyway, very good points about what the primary use is, I would add what percentage of time in each mode- towing vs not towing. I just towed a 3000lb camper about 1200 miles (Denver-SD-WY and back) and to be honest that was above the Ridge's capacity in my book. The camper was about 3' taller than thr truck, though not wider. At speed (60-65) the engine was at a steady 80%+ load. Climbing any sort of hill sucked.

For a short haul the Ridge is ok, but any elevation/altitude is going to be difficult.

We averaged 11mpg.

A friend has a new Pilot which he used to tow a camper from Denver to CA and AZ -on I70 over the Rockies. Looking forward to his report since it has about 30hp more than my Ridge.

At this point if we continue camping, a newer Tundra will be our tow vehicle.

I don't think you can go wrong with a new Tundra. Our TV is a 2005 4.7liter Tundra with a factory tow package, which is pulling our 2005 27T. 2014 we went to Moab, then near Telluride, CO, Mesa Verde, Aztec, NM, Pagosa Springs, CO and into to Texas before returning via Las Cruces, NM. Last year we did 8700 miles across Colorado, Nebraska, Iowa, Indiana, Ohio, New York, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia, Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana,Texas, New Mexico and Arizona. This year was a short 5000 mile trip to Alberta, Canada. Our MPG has always been 11-12 mpg. The point is, we have never had any issues pulling the 2005 27T with the Tundra, going across the Continental Divide numerous times.:)

Thanks for that info Garry, really good to hear of real-world experience. I hope we'll be able to pickup a 17T next year, and a new(er) truck to go with it.

FYI- I was a bit confused when posting earlier- thought I was posting on the Ridgeline forum - so I hope I didn't muddy up the thread here when my thinking was about towing with the Ridge rather than towing in general.

My apologies if I confused anyone.

I tow a 24' classic with a 2006 xtra cab 4x4 Tundra with the V8 and one of the biggest problems with a Hi-Lo is the extraordinary high tongue weight. In my opinion a 5000lb camper doesn't need a 750lb tongue weight, especially a Hi-Lo which is no higher than my truck.

Gary-what does the 24' weigh?

I always thought the general guide for tongue weight is about 10% of trailer weight? The 24 doesn't weigh 7500, so that sounds off at first glance


Is it 750 unloaded? If so, could it be designed that way to account for loading water in the fresh tank (is the tank behind the front axle?)? Maybe it's to compensate/allow for user loading?

Just throwing darts at the wall to try to understand the setup - given how these are designed, seems unlikely the tongue weight was an accident.

.

Knotty, the rule for tongue weight is 10-15% of the trailer total weight. The "ideal" is often said to be 12%.

Gary's trailer seems to be set up much like mine was, before I had the axle moved 3" forward. With water in the fresh tank, it actually was more like 17% of the gross weight before the axle relocation.

- Jack

Thanks Jack.

So the water was forward of the axle before moving it, and now more centered/closer to axle?

Makes me wonder what the engineers were thinkin!

Good info and insight on this thread.