2000 24' Classic Rebuild
 

Hi everyone,

I've been telling myself to get a build thread going here so today seems like a good time. The history on the trailer is that my folks bought it used about 12 years ago and it spent the first few years covered a lot of the time. Then it spent the next few years uncovered and got a leak. The leak wasn't noticed for at least 2 winters and the results were not good. A rubber roof was plastered over the aluminum one so that (I think) it stopped the leaking but the damage was done.

A few weeks ago it was towed due south from Iowa to Louisiana and it's now under a total rebuild. I'll post a few picks from time to time, but if you'd like to follow along on Flickr I've been taking pictures of everything and measuring it too:

https://www.flickr.com/gp/91683452@N08/fL3N1W

Here's the trailer before dismantling:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7633/2...cb8fed5031.jpgHiLo by Lineswest, on Flickr

https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8110/2...7474fe3ecf.jpgHiLo by Lineswest, on Flickr

Lots of "not good" there. It only gets better ... like a fully delaminated fiberglass outer skin:
https://c3.staticflickr.com/6/5502/2...72bdcd172a.jpgIMGP2948 by Lineswest, on Flickr

https://c6.staticflickr.com/6/5511/3...b0135b5e70.jpgIMGP2982 by Lineswest, on Flickr

Makes removal easier though :cool:
https://c7.staticflickr.com/6/5610/3...ff2c0890bb.jpgIMGP2989 by Lineswest, on Flickr

Last little bit of the wall coming down. The wooden beam is completely destroyed from in front of that guide rail all the way to the rear cap.
https://c6.staticflickr.com/6/5557/2...e4bbab6337.jpgIMGP3009 by Lineswest, on Flickr

I'm working up some plans to replace the beam without having to lift and separate the trailer. I was not convinced at all that given the shape of that wall, I could support the thing and work on it at the same time.

A few things I'm trying to remember so that the scope of this doesn't bury me with anxiety:
1) I'm not building a piano
2) Look 'up' and not 'around' at the level of mess. One thing at a time, one decision and step forward at a time.

The roof is a different type of mess, but I'll get the wall at least framed back in and the trailer lifting again before I decide what how or in what order to do that. Stay tuned I guess.

"We have the technology, we must rebuild it"

r67northern, Bionic Man almost! Sorry to see your 24'er. I had the same one, 'cept mine didn't suffer the damage. Best of luck to you, you have a great attitude. We're with you.
Tree

Repairing your HiLo
 

We have had to do extensive upper wall repair on our 1990 25ft. classic. Others have have had extensive rebuilds such as you are doing. Do you have a place to work on it over the winter? Check out some back posts for repair stories. We are here to answer any questions you may have.

Thanks everyone. I do have a cover over it (car port) so I should be able to keep working at it and also keep it out of the wet. It hasn't had it this good in years!

I've been going through a lot of the other threads and posts on these heavy rebuilds and there is a wealth of info there. I'm sure I'll have a few questions along the way, so I appreciate the group's willingness to chime in.

Here's one question: is the solar panel worth keeping? It's sitting over a questionable section of the roof and my immediate thought is to just pull it and move on. But I'm open to opinions as to how valuable it could be.

Thanks!

The factory installed solar panel was about "15 watts", but never delivered that. At best it supplied a trickle charge to the batts under the best of sunny conditions.
of course that may be enough for you. Your choice!
Tree

My two cents on the solar panel: If it's a 15 Watt "optional add on" panel that HiLo installed on some trailers, send it to a landfill. That output will only just barely maintain your battery charge during storage. It won't do anything for you while camping.

Solar panels generally don't put out more than half their "rated" output when in use. So, a 15 Watt panel will give you about 7.5 Watts on a good day, when the sun is bright and its rays are hitting the panel at exactly 90 degrees. Since Watts = volts x Amps, at a charging voltage of 13.5 V, you will be sending approximately 0.6 Amps to the trailer battery (optimistically). That's a relatively useless charging current.

I've installed two - 100 Watt panels on my trailer and they allow me to boondock without using my generator. I think anything less than this is a waste of money.

- Jack

Thanks Jack and Tree - exactly the info I needed. I'm an engineer and I was a bit suspicious of the usefulness of a 15 year old panel of that size, but real-world input from you helps make that decision easy.

-Leland

you were so smart to mark all the measurements and take pictures! I wish I had done that. Rebuilding has been a HUGE learning experience ;)

I'm hoping all of those measurements help me out - I think I read someone else's experiences on here and took their idea. Do any of the measurements help you out? Probably not since you're working on a 20'? I can try and grab a few though if you're looking for something specific ... I guess it depends on how much they changed things between '89 and 2000.

Quick update on the rebuild. I've got the new beam cut and ready for install after I clean up all of the rusted metal around it. It's an unusual approach, but it should add some nice strength to the damaged metal frame and also lets me drop the wood beam in from the "top" without pulling the halves apart.

https://c7.staticflickr.com/6/5697/3...39b607df_b.jpgIMGP3202 by Lineswest, on Flickr

Basically, I started with a 4x4 and cut a 1x1 notch so that it fits over the lower metal frame. I cut a second 1x1 notch so that I can reattach wall structure more easily.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5469/3...ca74622f_b.jpgIMGP3207 by Lineswest, on Flickr

Underside view:
https://c6.staticflickr.com/6/5545/3...b1da333d_b.jpgIMGP3206 by Lineswest, on Flickr

Happy thanksgiving everyone.
-Leland

Taking measurements
 

We were able to take our upper walls apart in big enough pieces to use for patterns. You could use brown paper to make a pattern especially around the windows. It is also useful to take pictures before disassembly. We reinstalled our existing curtains and found it very useful to diagram the layout of the curtain hardware as it was a somewhat complex layout. Put parts in baggies and label with a magic marker. I found this saved a lot of grief when it came time to do a final clean up. Line the floors and all counter tops with cardboard and duct tape. Carry on.

Couple of pics from a few days of work, got the wall from the door back framed in, and addressed a bit of the roof sag. Got the new beam tightened down and she lifts again.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5509/3...a23f1c03_b.jpgIMGP3223 by Lineswest, on Flickr

https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5818/3...be454bb1_b.jpgIMGP3224 by Lineswest, on Flickr

Did some problem solving with the lifting - I didn't like the twist I was seeing in the metal frame. The full wall installed would probably help it, but I added some brackets that help it a lot right now.

https://c3.staticflickr.com/6/5748/3...f1062efa_b.jpgIMGP3222 by Lineswest, on Flickr

I think I'll start tearing the inside roof down next. I think it will be easier to rework the roof while I still have access through the sidewall. And now that it's a bit more solid, I'm more comfortable going after the roof anyway.

It's amazing seeing the skeleton (or lack of bones). Take into account the windows, I wonder if I'd add a couple more ribs?
Tree

I had the same thoughts, Tree. I think I'd like to see some diagonal bracing in the corners (clearing the window locations of course). I think extra rigidity in the frame would protect the integrity of the seams better.

- Jack

Some diagonal bracing is a nice idea. I can't get another vertical support any closer to the door because of the window cutout, but some diagonals at the corners would be good. I'm sure that would do nothing but help the seem integrity.

I'm also planning to use extruded polystyrene foam (the pink or blue stuff) instead of the white foam. It has a better structural compression rating and it won't trap water because it has no interior voids. That white stuff is kind of like a sponge.

Any recommendations on a lubricant / protectant for the cables? I've got great access to the rear one right now, will have great access to the front one later.

Take care
-Leland

HiLo recommends WD40 for the cables, but a couple members here have posted on using a "non-greasy", dry lubricant as I recall. I've been using WD40 since I got my trailer and the cables look like new, but, I live in a relatively "dry" climate. I noticed WD40 now makes a "gel" spray that would possibly be better than the original formula.

- Jack

reason I mention this is because my forward curbside cable is adjusted perfect at the DOOR. Forward of that, the top is too low. Can only be a weakened frame, weld popped loose I'm guessing, at or near the door. All works well, so I'm not disassembling the front of the unit just to find out. But, after see 67's skeleton, I have to presume that more bracing is in order, especially corner bracing.
Tree

Lubing cables
 

Use Break Free to lube your cables. Another forum member gave us his tip of what to use. It is found a Walmart in the gun section. It cleans,protects and lubricates. Comes in a small spray can. If memory serves me correctly it is about $8to9 dollars a can. DH has been using this for 16yrs with very good results.

Agree with sam, gun lube is also a penetrate, for that reason I use a good quality sewing machine oil about 4 times a year.
Tree

Jack, One of the lubes is made by Blaster. It is garage door spray lube and goes on as a thin liquid and then drys to a non dirt attracting coating. I have used it a couple of times and seems to be doing well. Walmart and HD both sell it.

Thanks for the lubrication recommendations all. Always appreciate the help.

I am so glad that I checked this site tonight. For 4 years I've dreaded the repair of my HI-LO 2405 with several broken roof bows that allow the roof to bounce during travel. I made temporary wooden bows for reinforcement and then lost the motivation to finish. After seeing your pictures I realize mine could be much worse. Misery loves company. Thanks for the inspiration.

Company on one of these journeys is always good :)

I find that it isn't too overwhelming if I don't think about the scope, but just take one step at a time. Today some interior roof came out, what a mess. I'll try and post a few pictures in the next day or two.

Hi Folks, a couple of pics and a question.

I've been taking down some of the interior ceiling, you can see the composite layers:
https://c7.staticflickr.com/1/398/31...31bcf5df_z.jpgIMGP3229 by Lineswest, on Flickr

In a few places it's easy to see how the aluminum roof skin failed. Looking up from below, the new polymer coating that was spread on top of it has leaked through the holes:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/754/31...d06f70ee_z.jpgIMGP3226 by Lineswest, on Flickr

My thought right now is to cut the aluminum skin off where it has delaminated and come away from the interior ceiling (probably about the first 2-3 feet from the wall side to the center, along the length of the trailer).

Then I can build the ceiling back up from the inside, finally laying some new aluminum sheeting down on top. Or galvanized sheeting? That would be a material mis-match with the remaining aluminum roof though so ...

Thoughts or recommendations? What gauge do you think might be appropriate? Always appreciate the input.

-Leland

Roof repair
 

We haven't had to repair our rubber roof inside or outside. When we tore our interior walls apart we treated the rusty metal with rustoleum paint. This way you won't get any bleeding into your new material. Do a search for posts by Garyk52 as he rebuilt his entire trailer including the interior and exterior roof. Maybe youtube would have a video that would help you.

r67, I've been thinking of replacing my rubber roof because it seems to be loose in places. After seeing a couple of roof replacements, I'm sure I (and a couple of friends!) could complete the job in one day. As an previous owner of a 24' 2000 Classic, I feel a prudent idea would be to replace the tired old aluminum roof with a completely new rubber roof in your case. This way, even the plywood is replaced and the peace of mind goes a long way. Trying to add new metal, even aluminum, will cause galvanic corrosion (dissimilar metals) including the fasteners used, more problems later. Just my 2 cents.
Tree

Thanks for the inputs. It's got me a little perplexed because it started life as a normal aluminum roof, then got coated with rubber polymer roof to seal up the holes. So it's a combo.

I had the thought of replacing the entire thing, not just the delaminated part ... but ... the rest of it is stuck down really well! So I'm leaning toward just going after the delaminated sections and leaving the rest. But I'm still thinking about it and appreciate the inputs.

Roof replacement
 

I agree with treeclimber. The rubber roof is the way to go. Use your time over this long cold snowy winter to research the application/cost. I think someone that is an engineer on this forum replaced his roof with a rubber one. It totally eliminates the dissimilar metal issue.

Thanks Sam and Tree - I see what you're saying now. It's a northern Louisiana winter so I can push along on this thing little by little. Apart from the difficulty of actually yanking the aluminum roof off the paces where the glue is holding (about 2/3 of the trailer) I guess the other would be making sure the rounded roof edge in the sides as well as the end caps are smoothed and prepped well so they don't tear the rubber.

So I think... the plan would be
- pull old aluminum
- rebuild ceiling as needed
- relay new smooth plywood top layer
- get walls back in and finished up
- get the rubber roof down and sealed.

r67, amazon has the complete reroof kit for $574.89. You'll complete the plywood, seal the joints with Gorilla tape, smoothing down all areas and screw heads, then apply the roofing according to instructions. UNDER the front cap and OVER the rear cap. install hardware and caulk the entire roof. As I noted, I'd have several friends helping out as needed, even if you gotta feed 'em. Better to have one extra helper than one helper short.
Tree

Oh, forgot. Several great youtube videos on this subject. Dicor 40 mil, 32' was the kit I quoted, see if they have one closer to your needs. Don't know what shipping charges for non-prime orders are. 40 mill is the preferred thickness, and most work is done without all those people ON the roof. Research first! Ensure of your space and capabilities and like most tasks, take your time.
Tree

You bet - food for all. Why the 'over' the back and 'under' the front cap? Is the assembly different there? I can't recall.

When installed under the front cap, the wind and rain blows over that sealed joint, not under the membrane (Think even a pin hole). And the same weather will go over the end cap and not under that either. Of course both ends are caulked. This kit includes the caulk, several tubes designed for rubber roof installs. I also liked the reviews and know Dicor products, which are used on high end boats (Yachts, I think they're called). If these products can withstand 15 yrs of Florida weather, then it will do well on our Hi Los.
Tree

Thanks Tree - I see what you're saying. I was up on the roof a bit and it looks like the rubber compound they spread all over it when it was 'fixed' years back may be showing some discoloration that is coming through from the aluminum below. That's a good reason to get the whole thing gone.

Too bad that rubber compound is so hard - it isn't going to make getting to bolts and screws easy around all of those skylights and vents. I guess that's what dremel tools are for, eh?

Tools for rebuild
 

Don't know if a heat gun would help. Maybe,PB Blaster. We found a multi tool very helpful. When we did our HiLo rehab DH got to buy a few new tools..drool.

Heat gun is a good idea, thanks.

r67, When removing the fixtures from the roof, vents, A/C etc, I use a razor knife, a hard plastic blade about 1" wide sharpened, and a 1 1/2" putty knife, then I just take my time and remove the sealant around each screw, then remove the screws. Then, with care, I pry up the vent with the putty knife, cutting the sealant with the razor as it rises. I get into trouble if I hurry.
Tree

Well, based on the time stamps of these messages, I think we get up too early :)

Those are all appreciated inputs (and I haven't had to buy too many new tools yet - I've been expanding my set over the past few years because of things like my old automotive fleet - see below - but I AM collecting a nice set of stainless screws).

I think I may work a bit on the wall given the decision to pull the entire roof and replace it. I am thinking that getting new rubber glued down and placed on the roof is the last step, with the final trim and sealing pieces going after that. If the walls aren't back up and ready for the final seals, it would be tough to keep the rubber roof held in place.

At least that's my Saturday afternoon thought.

Update with a few photos:

I've made some progress with the rear 2/3 wall that was ripped out. Here are a few photos with the extruded polystyrene (XPS) foam in place:

https://c4.staticflickr.com/1/724/31...ae0e2911_z.jpgIMGP3275 by Lineswest, on Flickr

https://c4.staticflickr.com/1/430/32...f789ee90_z.jpgIMGP3276 by Lineswest, on Flickr

https://c5.staticflickr.com/1/364/31...8dd0fde5_z.jpgIMGP3280 by Lineswest, on Flickr

https://c3.staticflickr.com/1/606/31...4a25318f_z.jpgIMGP3373 by Lineswest, on Flickr

Prepping the fiberglass shell for repaint (with anti-mold primer) and then reattachment to a 2.5mm board. When all together, it will be the outer 5mm shell ready to go back on the new foam wall. Looks pretty all painted up.

https://c3.staticflickr.com/1/301/31...d790205a_z.jpgIMGP3386 by Lineswest, on Flickr

Now re-prepping it because the liquid nails didn't hold well. Used some 'Tite Bond' adhesive for fiberglass board instead

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Titebond-TB...hesive/3227253

and let it sit under the Suburban with weight all over it for a couple days (not the suburban's weight), seems to be much better adhered now.

https://c3.staticflickr.com/1/553/31...084f7af9_z.jpgIMGP3398 by Lineswest, on Flickr

Now ready to roll on the front 1/3 ... and try and get that rear fiberglass back up.

https://c5.staticflickr.com/1/349/31...7b6aee85_z.jpgIMGP3394 by Lineswest, on Flickr



The rebuilder of walls seemed a nice touch:
https://c3.staticflickr.com/1/455/31...ff0d47f3_z.jpgIMGP3402 by Lineswest, on Flickr

Happy new year everyone.
-Leland

Good pictures
 

Good to get an update. Gives us cold sometimes snowy northerners something to do over the long winter. Glad you found a glue that worked for you. DH used Heavy Duty Liquid Nails from Walmart in our restoration. Cheapest at Walmart. Another forum member used 4oz of Gorilla glue and two tubes of HD liquid nails on his ceiling/roof rebuild. Use a very generous amt. of glue/ect on each panel.Something like one to two tubes on each paneling in big S swirls. Best of luck as your repairs continue. You should be camping by spring time.