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Old 12-23-2011, 08:15 PM   #21
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Default Crack in Shroud - Roof Repair

This will be my last post on this [until next spring]. I gave you some mis-information earlier. When I had the Hi Lo cleaned last month, the man remarked that it had a vinyl roof. When I initially found the damaged roof, I thought it was a metal roof and remarked the holes looked like they had been caused by an electrical burn. My initial thoughts turned out to be correct.

It was a cold day here in South Texas and I delayed repairing the roof until it had a chance to warm up, but it never got above 40 degrees. I don't like to apply Polyurethane or any other sealant material in this cooler temperature but I really had no choice as it is supposed to rain tonight and tomorrow. I warmed the sealant over the kitchen range before finally going out mid-afternoon.

I began by sanding the surfaces of the [39+] holes and discovered my initial observance was correct, it is not vinyl, rather it is aluminum with a vinyl coating. After cleaning each sanded area with a vinegar and water solution and letting it dry, I completed the initial repair. I do plan on using a rubber based roofing paint and cover the entire roof next spring as suggested by Bruce in yesterday's post.

I thought the forum should have an idea of what I found after sanding the area surrounding each hole so I have included additional photos. It is a mystery to me as to what happened on the roof. The affected area is in a direct line and extends approximately 10 feet on the driver's side down to just short of the AC unit. I am more certain than ever that the damage was caused by some sort of electrical contact seeking a path to ground. Each hole appears to have a burnt area surrounding the hole. The other sections of the roof show no damage whatsoever. Some of the holes are tiny while others are pretty large.

The BK polyurethane went on rather easily even in the cold but I had to stop and warm the tube so that it would come out easier. After I finished, Carol and I unfurled the RV Cover and put this baby to bed for the winter.

The interior dried out rather nicely with the heater blowing on it all night. Carol will get some contact paper to cover the affected cabinet area next spring. Hopefully, with the repairs and RV cover, we should have no further damage until we can continue repairs in the spring.

Our wishes go out to all members of this forum that you have a safe and very Merry Christmas.

Jerry & Carol Curtis
Fredericksburg, TX
2406 Towlite
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Damage or Deterioration.jpg (80.2 KB, 47 views)
File Type: jpg Directly over interior leak.jpg (77.5 KB, 45 views)
File Type: jpg More holes in roof.jpg (78.4 KB, 44 views)
File Type: jpg More of same.jpg (90.3 KB, 45 views)
File Type: jpg Multiple spots.jpg (80.7 KB, 45 views)
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Old 12-24-2011, 08:52 AM   #22
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Sam and All,

On the Formflex, you put it on very thick and, while I can't remember, the directions say two coats so I must have done that. I remember speaking with the fellow that owns the company that produces it to get good instructions but can't recall how I got his name. I put it on a 1999T and of the five gallon can, I had about 1/4 of the can left that I have kept for the future. Because I sold that unit, can't really say how effective it was in the long term, but the Formflex owner said his product is good for ten years.

When I get to doing this on my 2707T, I intend to apply it over everything including the caulked seams which is also what I did on the 1999T per the owners instructions. I'll also put it on the top of the end cap where the cracking occurs although don't know if that would seal it 'permanently' given the obvious stress on the end caps that causes the cracks.

Bruce
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Old 12-24-2011, 09:06 AM   #23
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That probably is the electrolysis/chemical reaction between the the aluminum roof material and the steel screws that hold the plywood to the steel frame beneath. There evidently is no type of an electrical insulation barrier between the two metals. This is a common happening on many roofs. It starts as tiny pinholes and progressively gets worse. I don't know what the perfect repair is for it but you definitely need to get the holes sealed over with something to keep water from getting in and ruining the interior. Koolseal elastomeric roof coating is an excellent substance to use, and I'm sure there are other equally as good coatings.

This problem is something that should be monitored on a regular basis by everyone that has a HiLo with an aluminum roof, which is an overwhelming majority. Rubber roofs have their own problems.
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:48 AM   #24
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Default Crack in Shroud

Rich R,

I understand your synopsis on electrolysis/chemical reaction due to interaction between dissimilar metals and my roof problem could very well be caused by that. If the affected area were more widespread rather than being confined to a narrow linear section, I would be more prone to accept that theory. Regardless of cause, the effect could have been disastrous had it not been detected early on. The temporary fix and being under a cover should protect it until next spring.

We did get some good news today. My wife had contacted our insurance company on another matter and she casually told of our RV roof problem as we had taken out a policy for the RV. The Rep said the policy would cover the roof and subsequent damage. Since we had just bought the Hi Lo, I got on the phone and told her that I had not filed a claim because I believed it to be a pre-existing condition. She agreed that the roof repair would not be covered but she thought any interior repairs would be. She said it is like buying a house and the roof leaked into the interior and caused damage and that damage would be covered. She urged me to file a claim or at least allow her to make a note of it on our policy should it develop into an expensive repair. I opted for a notation for if I filed a claim I would have to take it to an RV Repair Shop for an estimate and we had just put the Hi Lo to bed for the winter months and I didn't want to undo all that it took to get that cover on and haul it 40 miles to get the inspection.

Now, I have the winter months to plan ahead and determine which of the elastomeric paint's I will use to cover the entire roof next spring. I got several good recommendations from previous forum posts.

Jerry & Carol Curtis
2406 Towlite
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:25 AM   #25
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I do know that the electrolysis/chemical reaction does occur on HiLo trailers. My HiLo dealer friend has told me about it. It usually shows up as tiny pinholes and progresses from there. That causes water infiltration and and I assume that accelerates the process from there. Doing the elastomeric coating is probably the best fix short of replacing the roof.

Keep us posted as to how your experience with the insurance coverage goes. That may be of great help to others here on the Forum.

Have a great winter! I believe I am going to go into hibernation until about March 1st.
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Old 12-28-2011, 10:52 AM   #26
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Jerry, Here is a couple of emails I sent to Kool Seal and the answers I got back. I looked at that other coating someone suggested and it said something about not for rv, but I don't know if they where just talking about the rubber roof type.


USES: Formflex 6000 is a Heavy Duty Rubberized Waterproofing Coating. Non-Flammable.
Use Formflex 6000 to waterproof:
•***** EPDM Roofs (non-traffic commercial. Not for RV roofs)**********
• Fiberglass Roofs (non-traffic)
• Asphalt Roofs
• Metal Roofs
• Tile Roofs
• Foam Roofs
• Mobile Home Roofs
• Parapet Walls / Cracked Stucco surfaces
• NOT recommended for TPO or PVC roof materials



Message From koolseal.com Visitor:

I just bought a 96 Hi-Lo Rv
with roof leaks, looks mostly like pinholes in
the Aluminum roof. Some real small and a few up to a 1/4 inch in
diameter. To seal this roof I am going to take all vents and the AC off the roof.
What I would like to know is if your product Xtra-Lite Premium
White Elastomeric Roof 63-800 would be a good choice for this project and
if you have any tips for me. Thinking of getting a roll of eternabond
tape to fill in the pinholes that I can find or do you have a better idea.

Dear Gary,

Thank you for contacting KST. We appreciate your inquiry.

Our elastomeric roof coatings are actually designed to be applied as a
system. This will include the use of the required patching materials as
well to achieve pleasing results. You should be able to use our products to
repair the small holes on your RV roofing substrate. Should you wish to use
the Xtra-Lite product, this should work. For a longer lasting (and more
durable coating), I would suggest going with the Premium White Elastomeric
Roof Coating (63-600). To apply this system per directions, thoroughly
clean the roofing surface and remove all areas of rust (taking care to
prime them with a rust inhibiting primer). When the surface is cleaned and
prepped, proceed with the application of the patching materials. You will
want to apply the Patching Cement over all cracks, seams, holes and around
any protrusions (any place where two unlike surfaces meet). While this is
still wet, lay down another layer of Reinforcing Grid, followed by another
coating of the Patching Cement (creating a sandwich of product). Ensure
that any questionable area is treated with these patching materials, and
then allow to dry. Proceed with the two required coats of your chosen
elastomeric for a pleasing waterproof substrate.

I hope this information is useful. Please let me know if you have any
further questions by replying with message history.

Sincerely,

Jessica
KST Product Support



Jessica,

I found a 5 gallon container of 63-600 at our local Ace Hardware store and was wondering what the shelf life is of this product. I won't be coating
the rv roof until the spring, which is quite a long ways off, but would buy it now because of the good price.



Thank you for responding back.

The shelf-life of our coatings unopened will be three years, so long as the
product is stored appropriately. Namely, you do not want to allow the
product to freeze, as this will cause the coating to "spoil." Store the
container in a temperature regulated area, such as a hall closet or heated
basement, and you should have pleasing results when you go to apply this
coating next spring.

I hope this information is useful. Please let me know if you have any other
questions.

Best regards,

Jessica
KST Product Support
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Old 12-28-2011, 12:10 PM   #27
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Default Crack in Shroud

garyk52,

Thank you so much for your valuable information. What a coincidence. I was just down at our local Ace store yesterday and I saw a 5-gallon can of Kool Seal Elastomeric Roof Coating. I didn't get the number off the can but when I read your post, I called and spoke to the 'paint guy' and he went back to get the information. I also asked him to provide the expiration date and he said he had ordered it in the past few months. It was what was recommended to you by the factory rep, the 63-600. And, it was on sale for $69! The reason he said was that they were phasing it out and were going to a different brand. So, I will go by and pick it up today and store it inside the house per instructions you got from the rep.

Like you, I had planned on removing the vents and AC unit as well as removing the gutter moulding on the sides, and run a strip of Eternabond Web Seal Bonding Tape along the openings and edge seams. When doing the roof edges, the process calls for lapping over the joint and to do this I plan on removing the gutter moulding, place the eternabond tape on the seam with a short overlap not exceeding the width of the gutter moulding so it will not be seen on the sides after replacing the moulding. Did you do this on your repair project? They also recommended replacing the factory screws which are brass with a steel screw. Did you do this and if so where did you get the screws?

I am also considering lapping the eternabond tape over a portion of the end caps that cover the roof edges on each end. My thinking is that doing so would perhaps fix or help the cracking problem that the plastic end caps are experiencing. I think your end caps are fiber glass so you probably didn't need to do this. [I would like to hear what others might think of this approach].

I would also like to know if you ran the eternabond tape over the rib joints connecting the aluminum panels? I had to place some BK Sealant on two areas where it appears they have become separated. This may have ocurred when the guy was on the roof washing it last month.

From what you have told me, your roof problem is very much like mine and substantiates what Rich R's analysis of the cause being electrolysis and or chemical action. I'm curious of the placement of the holes in your roof that you described. Were they scattered throughout the roof's surface or were they like mine, in a row and confined to a few linear feet?

I am hopeful that future readers of this post will find some helpful information should they experience the same problems we have encountered.
Thanks again for the information.

Jerry & Carol Curtis
2406 Towlite
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Old 12-28-2011, 12:34 PM   #28
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Jerry,

I'm in the same boat as you. I just got my Hilo in the middle of October 2011 and the only thing I have done so far is tear out the wet paneling and styrofoam. I covered it with a tarp I bought from Amazon.com for the winter as I believe we both need warmer weather to work on these campers. The pinholes in my camper are scattered mostly on the back 1/4 of the roof, door side.

Cheers
Gary
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Old 12-28-2011, 05:04 PM   #29
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Default Roof repair,JCurtis95 &Gary 52

Gary52 Thank you for contacting kool seal and posting the great reply. I,m sure it will help others as this will happen over and over again to HiLo trailers. My two cents worth. Jerry I would write a letter to your ins. co. requesting a delay in bringing the trailer until the spring. State it is covered up to prevent further dammage. The advantage of having it inspected in the bad weather is the Rv shops are less busy in the winter. Wouldn,t it be nice if you didn,t have to do the repair and it was covered by the ins. co.? I have ordered stainless steel screws from McFeelys several times over the years and recently in our 90 HiLo restoration. Ask them if you can get $1.00 shipping. This $1.00 shipping post card is included with your return order. When you place the order they tyell you if it is in stock. I,m sure they are on the internet and you could request a catalog. Stainless steel screws aren,t cheap but hold up and are worth the extra $. Done once and done right. Finaly when coating use blue tape and you will get a "sharp line /neat looking job".Didn,t think to do this when we coated our roof. Best of luck to both of you with your repairs.
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Old 12-28-2011, 05:10 PM   #30
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The pinholes from electrolysis are only in the spots where the screws beneath make direct contact with the aluminum roof material. So you may see the pinholes in rows or at hit and miss locations.

When applying the Koolseal be sure to mask off areas that you don't want it to be because it really sticks.
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Old 01-30-2012, 12:54 PM   #31
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Default Applying Kool Seal 63-600

I will be beginning my roof repair in March. The Hi-lo will be inside the RV garage and I will choose a warm day [or two] to do the application itself. Meanwhile, I will remove vents, AC, and gutter molding and do the preparation required before applying Kool Seal.

I am a little confused as to the preparation prior to applying the Kool Seal itself. When Garyk contacted the factory rep, his instructions were as follows:

1.clean the roof
2.prime with a rust inhibiting primer
3.apply patching materials [and reinforcing grid [?]]
4.apply Patching Cement over all cracks, seams, holes and around any
protrusions (any place where two unlike surfaces meet).
5.while this is still wet, lay down another layer of Reinforcing Grid, followed by another coating of the Patching Cement (creating a sandwich of product)
6.apply [2] coats of Kool Seal

My confusion lies in an earlier post where it was recommended that eternabond web seal tape be used. Am I to understand I have options here? If I use eterna-bond web seal tape does that replace steps 3, 4, & 5 above? Or is eternabond web seal tape to be applied after doing all the above steps?

If I have the option of doing one or the other, or if all the above is required, I would like suggestions for the patching materials [patching cement and reinforcing grid]. Am I also understanding it correctly that if the webseal tape is used, nothing other than a clean surface is necessary before application?

Sorry for all these confusing questions but I want to do it right the first time.
Thanks for your advice and input.

Jerry Curtis
2406 T 2000 F250 7.3L 4x4
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Old 02-01-2012, 11:14 AM   #32
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jcurtis95

The drift I get from this is Kool Seal wants you to use their patching materials and not eternabond. They don't make any money from eternabond. I'm going to use whichever is cheaper ( 16 year old camper ) either eternabond tape or patching cement and reinforcing grid which I presume is nothing more than a nylon screen sandwich.

Cheers and Good Luck
garyk52

Oh yea the primer thing is just on rust spots
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:19 AM   #33
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Here's what i did to my 2001 19' last summer.
  1. 1. wash roof with tsp, rinse
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:46 AM   #34
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Here's what i did to my 2001 19' last summer.
1. wash roof with tsp, rinse 2. cover all seams, top of end caps and visable pinholes with etrnabond web seal tape 3. paint roof with 2-3 coats of elastromeric covering. I purchased the covering at Home Depot. It looks good but I've noticed a few bubbles under the coating. I don't known if the electroylis is causing this or trapped mositure before coating. I plan on cutting the blisters out next spring and recoating the area.
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Old 02-05-2012, 06:48 PM   #35
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Default ABS plastic repair

I know this is a hilo forum but i use to own an apache popup camper , no canvas but it has abs pannels in place of canvas, the suggested for cracks to use MSK, which is liquid used in automotive body shops, comes in quart size and i found mine at Menards, What they suggested was to first put some MEK into a metal or glass jar with some small chips of abs plastic, ( you can purchase it, ) or find a piece of abs plastic, cut it into small chuncks, like 1/4 inch, put it in overnight into containter with MEK, and lid on tight, look at it the next morning and what you have is a brushable goo. On the crack area lightly sand the crack area, brush alittle mek on and then put a cut to length piece of sheetrock joint fibermesh over the crack for strength, brush another layer over the top and then leave alone, may require several coates, but hardens in hours and is as good as the original abs plastic, I have used this on my hilo battery box and electric cord box from damage from hitting stuff from previous owners . Fiberglass on abs plastic works but will eventually let loose and have seen the results.
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